The following is the text of an interview with Bashar al-Asad, place and date not given entitled "Bashar al-Asad: 'I cannot afford any mistakes'" published by German news magazine Der Spiegel website on 29 August; subheadings inserted editorially:
Interference in our affairs from abroad[Spiegel] Mr President, here and there in the Arab world there are tender beginnings of democracy. Not much can be felt of it in Syria. Why not? [Bashar al-Asad] The Arab states are developing at different speeds and under different historical conditions. For example, Egypt has not experienced as many coups as Syria. Furthermore, Cairo has made peace with Israel whereas we are in a state of non-war but also non-peace. In addition, we just began the development a couple years ago and there are inevitably widely differing expectations. The main thing is that we are conducting a dialogue in Syria.
[Spiegel] But all that is taking longer than many people would like. [Al-Asad] The pace of our development depends on the challenges we must face and that we cannot always influence. There is interference in our affairs from abroad.
[Spiegel] You mean the demands of the United States for more democracy and the end of support for terrorists? [Al-Asad] The greater the intervention, the slower will be the pace of development in Syria since the democratic process should penetrate the entire country. Naturally, the unresolved Middle East conflict also hampers development. And then the question sometimes arises as to what should have priority: political development or economic growth.
We urgently need the assistance of the EU [Spiegel] Does the one exclude the other? [Al-Asad] There is a great gulf between the two goals. To promote growth we urgently need the assistance of the EU. For many Syrians I meet, the experience of poverty is much more important than the prospect of a democratic constitution. Furthermore, there is still terrorism, which hampers democratic development. We must simply act as quickly as possible, otherwise there will be setbacks.
[Spiegel] But you do not make it easy for your countrymen either: parties may be able to form but they are immediately banned again and opposition figures are arrested. [Al-Asad] But you are speaking with opposition figures in our country. If we were to arrest all of them there would not be enough space in the prisons.
[Spiegel] Most opposition figures we have spoken with were in prison for a very long time. [Al-Asad] But now they are out again. Furthermore, it is not easy to compare your situation in the West with ours. For example, take religion. A book appeared in the UK in which the author maintains that Jesus Christ had children. In Europe, there will be neither a revolt break out or blood shed because of such statements. But if you write something comparable about Islam in Syria, the result could be bloody rebellions.
We still do not have a pronounced party landscape [Spiegel] What does that have to do with the real opposition in Syria? [Al-Asad] When we call someone to account it is not as an individual. Instead, it is a matter of whether he attacks the religious and ethnic structure of the population. The roof of stability must not be damaged. Two months ago we allowed the formation of parties and at present we are looking at these parties very closely. I do not dispute the fact that we still do not have a pronounced party landscape. I just wanted to show you where we have to be careful.
[Spiegel] What are you afraid of specifically? [Al-Asad] Developments like in Algeria since 1991. At that time the government incorrectly assessed the people and the Islamists threatened to assume power. The Algerians are still paying the price of this miscalculation with their blood.
[Spiegel] For example, there is the case of the parliamentarian Riyad Sayf, a businessman and self-made man. He criticized the omnipotence of the monopolies and was sentenced to five years in jail. [Al-Asad] He called into question the unity of the nation and we have a law now that punishes anyone who encroaches on the mosaic of the various ethnic and religious groups. No-one is called to account who personally attacks me[Spiegel] Did not Sayf simply question the balance of power? [Al-Asad] No, no-one is called to account who personally attacks me. But infringing on the composition of the Syrian society is simply too explosive.
[Spiegel] Journalists too are still hampered in their work or even jailed. When will there be genuine freedom of the press? [Al-Asad] We have never locked up anyone because of his personal opinion. [Spiegel] The correspondent of the leading Arab paper al-Hayat had to spend several months in jail.
[Al-Asad] That is something different. Under Syrian law, a journalist may not report on military affairs. That may be right or wrong, but that is the way it is now.
[Spiegel] You have said that fighting poverty is more important than democracy. Does this mean you want to emulate the Chinese model: economic opening without political reforms? [Al-Asad] When I say the economy has priority, that does not mean by far that we neglect political reforms. In the last five years the economy may have taken priority because it means improving the population's living standard. If someone gets up tomorrow and has nothing to eat, that is a dangerous matter. If I tell such a person 'I will allow parties for you,' what will he answer me? It is not important for us whether it is the Chinese model or something else. We act according to our country's needs.
[Spiegel] When will a democratic party system be evident in Syria? [Al-Asad] We needed five years for the social dialogue. We are now in the second stage, the discussions of the parties. That will not happen so quickly. Morocco, for example, needed three years.
[Spiegel] Will you be that far by the 2007 general elections? [Al-Asad] Quite probably, but in our part of the world you cannot simply make long-term predictions. I cannot afford any mistakes. Instead of jumping four metres and perhaps falling, we do better to divide our workload into small steps.
"Abu-Ghurayb is not an example of freedom" [Spiegel] How do you intend to prevent the Algerian model: the formation of religious parties that are elected democratically but act undemocratically? [Al-Asad] Once again: we cannot use Western standards of measurement for the development of the East. In Germany, with the CDU [Christian Democratic Union] you have a party that is religious-Christian but that has integrated into the country's life very well. Given your history, you have no large nationalist parties. Experience has taught us that the situation in Syria became stable because the entire society is secular. We must preserve that.
[Spiegel] In many speeches, American President George W. Bush has complained that freedom must too often take a back seat to stability. Do you feel this is aimed at you? [Al-Asad] Freedom and democracy are only instruments, just like stability. The goal is progress and growth. Someone who puts freedom in place of stability damages growth. Furthermore, Abu-Ghurayb [prison in western Baghdad] is not an example of freedom, nor is Guantanamo or Iraq.
[
Spiegel] In Washington you are seen as a sort of "Saddam light". [Al-Asad] There were genuine hostilities between Saddam Husayn's regime and my father's, in which 15,000 Syrian troops lost their lives. Saddam always allowed only his opinion; I also involve people outside the party in decision-making. If we had taken a direction like Saddam in Iraq, I could not trust myself to walk on the street with my wife and children. Saddam had to hide. The fact that there are people who criticize me does not mean people hate me.
[Spiegel] In the 1991 Gulf war your father supported Bush Senior, whereas you sharply criticized the war in 2003. [Al-Asad] The first war involved the liberation of an Arab people suffering under occupation. The latest war resulted in the occupation of an Arab country. That is a huge difference.
"Terror operations in Iraq... but there is also a resistance movement" [Spiegel] Do you have understanding for the insurgents fighting the occupation power and the new government in Iraq? [Al-Asad] There are terror operations in Iraq in which innocent people are victims; we absolutely reject those. But there is also a resistance movement and that is a different matter, an entirely normal matter.
[Spiegel] Are suicide attacks also legitimate as a weapon against the occupiers? [Al-Asad] Even religious scholars argue about that and I have the impression the majority of them are in favour of them. But that is a hypothetical debate. Someone who is truly determined to blow himself up asks neither you nor me. This debate is a waste of time.
"Impossible to completely control the border with Iraq" [Spiegel] The American government accuses you of smoothing the way for the insurgents through Syria to Iraq. [Al-Asad] It also accused Saddam of having weapons of mass destruction. But seriously: if someone asks the Americans whether they are successful in sealing the border with Mexico they say it is very difficult. We say to the Americans in no uncertain terms that it is impossible to completely control the border with Iraq.
Yet we also tell them that the basis for the chaos must be sought in the war. It is not fair to make a mistake oneself and then blame others for it.
[Spiegel] The American government has included Syria among the "rogue states". Do you fear Washington wants to remove you from office? [Al-Asad] Look at the results of the regime change in Iraq. You will certainly not want to assert it was successful.
[Spiegel] At the last Spiegel interview in 2001 you predicted Israeli Prime Minister Sharon would plunge the entire region into war. Now he has withdrawn the settlers from Gaza. A new opportunity for peace? [Al-Asad] The withdrawal of settlers and troops from Gaza is certainly not a wrong step, but by itself it will not bring peace. That can only be done by complying with all relevant UN resolutions and those include the return of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and repatriation of refugees, the return of the Golan Heights and the question of a sovereign Palestine.
"Realization of peace is the best way to fight terror" [Spiegel] Such maximum demands are unrealistic. [Al-Asad] It is not a question of maximum or minimum demands. The place where the interests of all parties are linked is the international community with its resolutions.
[Spiegel] Israel was always threatened by war and terror and therefore considers it incompatible with its national interests to meet some of the demands. [Al-Asad] We are also threatened by terror, even your country is threatened by terror. Conversely, the realization of peace is the best way to fight terror.
[Spiegel] The offices of the terror organizations Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Damascus have formally been closed, but their leaders continue to live in the country undisturbed. Are you not playing a double game? [Al-Asad] Normally, these people would live in the Palestinian areas. We have not invited them to Syria. Israel chased them out.
"Syria has nothing to do with this murder" [Spiegel] Many politicians in your neighbouring country of Lebanon hold your regime responsible for the murder of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq al-Hariri. Some have even said you argued heatedly with him during his last visit to Damascus. [Al-Asad] Some have even said I threatened him. Others suggest that a security official pointed his pistol at Al-Hariri's head. That is simply ludicrous.
In that conversation we talked about an extension of the term of office of Lebanese President Emile Lahhud. And it is completely clear that Al-Hariri did not agree. I said to him: "We want to exert no pressure on you now. Go back to Lebanon and inform us then of your decision." His agreement came a few days later.
Why should Syria kill someone with whom there are no differences? That makes no sense. In reality, we Syrians are the ones who have reaped the most disadvantages from this affair.
[Spiegel] You had to withdraw 14,000 occupation troops from Lebanon. But you did not travel to Al-Hariri's funeral. [Al-Asad] Naturally not. It was a matter of self-respect. After all, there were these accusations.
[Spiegel] A German prosecutor is to clarify Al-Hariri's murder on assignment for the UN. How will you react if he becomes convinced that Syrians were also involved in the murder? [Al-Asad] We are being wholeheartedly cooperative. We have an interest in the investigation because we are convinced we will be exonerated unless the results are falsified for political reasons. Syria has nothing to do with this murder, nothing at all.
[Spiegel] Can you really rule out completely that neither one of your secret services nor any other Syrian is involved? [Al-Asad] I am quite certain. Such an action requires the cooperation of multiple people and institutions. If this teamwork had existed we would know about it.
[Spiegel] And the Syrian who prosecutor Mehlis would like to question can testify? [Al-Asad] I have said that anyone can testify with whom he wants to speak. That is in my interest and in Syria's interest.
[Spiegel] Mr President, we thank you for this interview. Source: Der Spiegel website, Hamburg, in German 29 Aug 05
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