Wednesday, August 03, 2005

"Who Are The Muslim Brotherhood Trying to Fool?" by Wafa Sultan

Syrian Expatriate Asks: Who Are The Muslim Brotherhood Trying to Fool?

MEMRI has put out a translation of Dr. Wafa's recent article in annaqad - the Critic - criticizing the Muslim Brotherhood. She also has harsh words for those liberal Syrians who have sought to ally with them. Annaqad is an important website that was closed down for a period after the temporary arrest of Nabil Fayyad, one of its main contributors. (Google this site to find out more about Fayyad.) Fayyad left Syria for the US after his short arrest and interrogation, where he joined Farid Ghadry's Syria Reform Party. A little over a month ago, he returned to Syria, claiming he would open an office of the SRP and daring the government to close him down. I have not heard from or of Nabil Fayyad since, but the important website - annaqad - is back and revamped. It is viewable from Damascus and Nabil is writing on it, so I assume he is OK. For those who read Arabic, this article related to the one translated below by MEMRI is very interesting and important given the recent events in Qadmous and the discussion it provoked on these pages about Alawis, and whether they have been persecuted in Syria and are responsible for everything bad in the country. Thanks to the anonymous commentator who sent it to me. It is here entitled,
العلويون بين مطرقة التكفير وسندان السلطة!! رد على مقالة نبيل فياض :البعثيون أم الأصوليون:من دمر سوريا؟

Here is the MEMRI article:

Dr. Wafa Sultan is a psychologist and a Syrian expatriate who resides in the U.S. On June 5, 2005, she published an article on the reformist website - the Critic - entitled "The Muslim Brotherhood: Who Are They Trying to Fool?" in which she cautioned liberal opponents of the Syrian regime against believing that the Muslim Brotherhood has really adopted pluralism and democracy. On July 26, 2005, Dr. Sultan appeared on Al-Jazeera to debate an Algerian Islamist professor of religous politics. (To view this clip, please visit ) The following are excerpts from Dr. Sultan's article on The Muslim Brotherhood:

"Has Something Changed in the Basic Principles of the Muslim Brotherhood? Or is it Nothing but a Big Lie?"

"Websites have recently overflowed with articles and reports discussing the Muslim Brotherhood organization. One can not help noticing the degree to which most of these articles and reports underestimate the intelligence of the readers when they attempt to prettify this organization's ugly image. I look at the expression used by the Muslim Brotherhood 'demanding to respect the beliefs and the opinions of others and to establish a pluralistic, democratic society that honors all people regardless of religion or sect.'

"I stop at this sentence and ask myself: Has something changed in the basic principles of the [Muslim] Brotherhood to make us believe that they have changed their attitude? Or is what they are adopting now nothing but a big lie required by current political exigencies, both international and domestic - as the folk saying goes 'act like a weakling until you are strong.'

"The crimes which they committed on the basis of their principles are still fresh in our memory, and the innocent blood which they spilled is still in our hearts. In the most recent statement which they issued following their conference, they attempted to wash their hands clean of the terrorist acts in Syria at the end of the 1970s and the beginning of the 1980s and to pin it on a splinter group which, as they claim, adopted violence as a means to achieve its goals."

"Are They Now Praying to a Deity Other than the One Whose Name They Called when Shouting 'Allahu Akbar' While Shooting Down the Country's Best and Brightest?"

"However, slips of the tongue - if theirs was really a slip of the tongue - always reveal what is in the heart, and especially the heart of a hypocrite. In that statement, they said: 'The Muslim Brotherhood organization has nothing to do with this splinter group that used violence against the pillars of the regime.' Against the pillars of the regime?! Was Muhammad Al-Fadil, who was assassinated by these criminals, one of the pillars of the regime, or was he one of the pillars of the Faculty of Law at Damascus University?! Was Dr. Yusef Al-Yusef, whose body they riddled with bullet in front of the medical school at the University of Aleppo while shouting 'Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar' - was he one of the pillars of the regime, or an ophthalmologist who didn't have anything whatsoever to do with the regime?...Were the students in the artillery school, who were attacked by their commander, First Lt. Ibrahim Al-Yusef, and within seconds turned 200 of them into [a collection] of scattered
limbs...were all these pillars of the regime? And if they were, as the Muslim Brotherhood claimed in their statement, then why do they disown that 'splinter group,' rather than taking it in? Aren't they themselves against the regime?

"What has changed in the Brotherhood's basic principles to make us believe that they have changed their positions? Have they adopted a new book other than their old books, in which they found justifications for their acts? Are they now praying to a deity other than the one whose name they called when shouting 'Allahu Akbar' while shooting down the country's best and brightest from among the scholars of science and law, for the sole reason that they belonged to groups that did not embrace their basic beliefs and principles?

"Do they now believe in verses other than those that incite them to fight those who do not believe in their book and their Prophet, so that they [now] demand to respect the beliefs and freedoms of the other? Have they changed their view about 'those who have incurred Allah's wrath' and 'those who have gone astray,'(1) such that they are capable of building a pluralistic democratic society with respect for everyone?...Are they going to desist from accusing others of being apostates, while threatening to kill them, making them divorce their wives,(2) or deporting them? Has the woman become, in their understanding, a human being deserving of having her rights and wishes respected, and one that cannot be beaten up merely because a deranged, crazy husband suspects that she is not performing her conjugal duties according to his taste?

Expatriate Members of The Muslim Brotherhood are "Planning to Return from Their Safe Havens to the Scene of Their Crimes"

"We cannot deny the Muslim Brothers their Syrian nationality, nor do we want to, just as they cannot deny other Syrians their nationality, even though they want to. However, the coming stage requires of them, just as it requires of us, that they should enter the new Syria on the basis of sincere belief in this nationality, and not on the basis of beliefs and ideas which are morally illegitimate and which have long [been discredited]. Our religious or sectarian affiliation is no criterion for good citizenship. Love of Syria and respect for all Syrians, regardless of religious affiliation, is the only criterion. Can the Muslim Brotherhood and others who have been sullied by their shameful terrorist past – are they willing to abide by this criterion?...

"Do they have the courage to openly declare their new beliefs and apologize for their past so that we won't need to dig up their past? They are calling [now] for a pluralistic, democratic society ruled by the principles of justice and equality. On what basis are they going to build this society?...Have they changed their fundamental beliefs? Why don't they give an answer to this question?...They used to commit crimes [and then] escape to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, or Jordan [in order to find] a safe haven, and now they are planning to return from these safe havens to the scene of their crimes to participate in building a democratic pluralistic society based on justice and equality?!...

"The Syrian people are exhausted from the oppression and despotism of the [Ba'ath] regime which has borne down on them for more than 40 years. We suffered a great calamity when the Assad family and their band seized power in Syria, but we will suffer an even greater calamity if, when we get rid of this band, we find ourselves face to face with the Muslim Brotherhood – 'God forbid.' Are the [Syrian] opposition and secular and democratic parties, both in Syria and overseas – are they aware of this truth? Will they be able to thwart the Muslim Brotherhood's plan to corrupt the new Syria? Assad's monopoly on power was a violation of the rights of the people and has led us to a miserable life; however, we do not want to replace it with something even worse."

(1) The wording is taken from Koran 1:7, where according to the standard commentators these descriptions refer respectively to Jews and Christians.
(2) In many Muslim countries, the law requires a man who is found in court to be an apostate to divorce his wife.


At 8/04/2005 04:25:00 AM, Blogger raf* said...


thanks, this is a great article. There are similar discussions going on in the Egyptian blogosphere (check out - it seems that slowly the "Moderates" are making themselves heard and challenge the Islamists on their own - programmatical, intellectual, even theological - grounds.

The trick is to transfer this debate into the real "public" sphere, right?


At 8/04/2005 07:11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, but this article isn't interesting at all. She's only able to remind us that the Brotherhood killed innocent people, but it seems that she doesn't know anything about the context, the story or even the ideology of the movement. Moreover, citing the Kuran when criticizing contemporary Islamic movement is just cheap orientalism.

The Brotherhood's story is a little bit more complex than terrorism. Just remember that it appeared in the late fourties, ran several elections, had MPs and ministers until 1963. Afterward, its extremist wing developped as a reaction to the increasing violence of the regime. Whatever, the "reformists" have not the choice, they can't be pro-democracy and at the same time reject the participation of the Brotherhood, which would not make sense. They'd rather try to think about the best way to make the MB a good partner in a democratic system.

At 8/04/2005 08:06:00 AM, Blogger Innocent_Criminal said...

Ashraf - But how to transfer the dialogue to the general public? Especially since Internet penetration in Syria is minuscule.

I would be very hesitant to call anyone affiliated with Ghadry a "Moderate". We should be careful in analyzing their intentions in attacking other opposition groups including the MB. I am certain ideology is a primary reason, but competitiveness and considering MB a threat is also a major concern. I think the SRP is trying to reevaluate their strategy by sounding more “moderate” to cover the stench of shit coming out of the American horse they are riding in on.

Nevertheless, there is truth to the article. Defending Secularism is paramount over anything else (unfortunately even over democracy in my opinion). That doesn’t mean that reform should be halted, on the contrary, dialogue with real moderates (not the SRP) is the best solution to isolate them and others such as the Muslim Brotherhood. But that requires proactiveness from Damascus. And that is a skill they certainly lack.

To the last Anon – I am sorry my friend, you can put it as eloquently as you like. But religion and politics should not be mixed in any way or form. Not in Europe, America and certainly not in the Middle East.


At 8/04/2005 08:35:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So SRP is just another version of Ghadri!!! Thanks Josh for this information, I'v always wondered who the hell is SRP and couldnt information anywhere about them

At 8/04/2005 08:48:00 AM, Blogger raf* said...

Anon 8:35 --

you might mistake Ghadry's Syrian Reform Party (SRP) with "Mu'taz Agha al-Dandashi"'s Syrian Republican Party (which, for some strange reason, they abbreviate SSPRS) and who is posting on this comment section.

Tarek - yeah, exactly, that IS one of the problems, right? i don't have an answer right now ... was thinking of "guerilla radio" or something ...

in the end, nothing beats good old-fashioed networking.


At 8/04/2005 08:50:00 AM, Anonymous Tarek said...

Ghadry's SRP (Syrian Reform Party) is differnt than the so called Syrian Republican Party. The first is real and based in the US the other is fake but also based in the states. But lets plz just stick with the subject.

At 8/04/2005 09:57:00 AM, Blogger One Disobedient Mofo said...

Muslim Brotherhood doesn't work. It is true that they have been opposers of the regime since the start, but they have lost credibility when they asked the U.S. for help, and started killing civilians that had nothing to do with the Assads. I noticed that fellow Syrians are growing more and more religious anyway, I see more Hijabs and black veils every time I go there. I think by now, we all know that Unless we practice religion in the right, non-extremist way, e.g -smelling womens perfume is not Zina or adultery- as some long bearded bastards say, we should not impose our deviant ideas on all minorities in Syria.

At 8/04/2005 10:58:00 AM, Anonymous John USA said...

Why is every time we see an act of terror, or every time a non-Muslim questions Islam, it is simply because we do not understand Islam? We are told daily in the news and by Liberals and organizations like CAIR that we need to make some huge effort to try and understand Islam and Muslims, because it is this supposed lack of understanding that we are told are the cause of terror world wide.

Perhaps to the dismay of some Muslims and many Liberals, we are not as uneducated about the religion and cultures that practice terror. Of course, we all know that some Muslims take their religion and practice peace, but there are also a great number that do not. The Muslims who use peaceful passages from the Quran seem to think we do not know of these passages. But we do. After all, Mohammed knew enough of Jewish scripture from Jews living in his land at the time, and he also had exposure to mostly heretical Christians at the time as well who lived in Arabia and their unsound doctrines. This is why most Muslims I talk with have a very limited and very strange understanding about what the Bible says. The Muslim understanding of the Bible comes from what the Quran claims, which is quite contrary to what the Bible actually says. But it is we who lack understanding.

And for those of us who have read through the Quran, the Hadiths, and other Islamic writings, we are not as blind as most Muslims would like to think. We also know the history of Mohammed and his lifestyle better than we are assumed to know. So Liberals and Muslims, what is it about Islam we are supposed to know that we do not now understand? Are we supposed to take the commands of Mohammed to slay Christians and Jews, or the command to impose a Dhimmi tax on non-Mohammedans, or the 164 verses concerning Jihad, or the Hadiths that tell us Mohammed thought the Earth was flat, and that the sun rose and set in 2 different directions? Or are not to understand that Mohammed claimed the sun set down at night into a mud puddle, and that is why it got dark out?

Are we to understand that after Jesus said He was the last prophet, and any who came after was a fake, that Mohammed had authority to over ride the claims of Jesus? After all, Muslims always tell us that they revere Jesus as a great prophet, yet with the Quran they completely deny His words and His mission. Just as the Palestinians and all their supporters do by trying to take the land the Quran said belongs to the Jews.

Are we to understand that when terrorists destroy property and human life with such impunity, that we are to accept the fact that Islam is not condoning this, yet the militants actually have scripture from the Quran that calls for and condones their actions? How else could there be such a huge militant movement if the scriptures they used were nothing more than weak arguments and a total misuse of the Quran?

I am really glad for Muslims who desire peace, I really am. I truly believe that those who pursue peace and refuse to conduct themselves in violent ways are people who seek those things with or without religion. But this terror element throughout the world is much too big to simply be a small offshoot of Islam. We look at the terror sown by Muslim governments in Iran, Syria, Indonesia, Malaysia, Sudan, and others. They not only condone these terrorists, they support them. Maddrassas could never thrive without the massive funding by Saudis and American Islamic organizations like CAIR who have been under scrutiny for channeled “charity” funds.

So to get back on track here, WHY is it always US that have a need to understand Islam? It is not the Catholic or Baptist, or Methodist churches blowing up innocents and kidnapping with intent to behead. It is not the Jews in Israel or America or Europe who skulk in their places of worship and plot terror until they walk out and destroy. It is not the Hindu religion that sends its people out from their holy places to commit terror. It is not the Buddhists who slip into society with the full intent to deceive the populous and wait for an opportune time to strike out in slaughter. Though some of these entities have retaliated to Muslims doing such things, it is definitely not the express tenets of those religions to do so, nor do any of them support or build schools to brain wash their young to commit such acts.

We all know there are some peaceful sayings in the Quran. And one who has studied the major holy books of Judaism and Christianity can easily see where Mohammed “borrowed” most of those passages. Yet there those who are blind enough to believe we are being attacked simply because we do not understand Islam. Christianity is not bombing subway tunnels because they are not understood. Jews are not tying people up and cutting their heads off on video because someone does not understand them. Neither are Hindus.

So am I to understand, that until I understand Islam and Muslims the way they WANT me to understand them, my nation and culture will be subject to terror attacks? Wow. So all we need to do is allow our religions and cultures to give way to Islam and obey the Quran, and repent of our former religions, and we will not have to fear terror? So easy, so simple, so deliciously dominant.

However folks, here is MY take on this whole absurd notion. I simply refuse to be terrorized or bullied into accepting anything at all. Even if I thought Islam was a great thing and that Mohammed actually was a prophet from the God of Abraham, I would never submit to it out of fear or intimidation

I am not spineless enough to just be pushed around to accept anything like that, and it pains me to see politicians and media, as well as entertainment icons actually walk around preaching this. Remember when all those peace loving Human Shields went to Iraq early on and wined and dined with Saddam, until they found out he really was going to use them as Human Shields? They could not run from there fast enough. Yet these same like minded individuals continually remind us that we will all suffer death and attacks until we understand Islam.

I am sorry folks, but I believe we understand all about Islam we need to understand. As the saying goes, “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.” I think it is high time we demand that Islam understand US, and that Muslims get the picture that if they are to live in OUR nations and OUR society, we need not change anything. They dislike the way women dress? Move back home. Dislike they way we teach our children? Go back home. Dislike the way we practice freedom? Dislike our religion? The border works both ways.

Do not try and infiltrate Western culture and attempt to change it by means of terror. We are who we are, and we do not have to change for anyone, any religion, any other culture.

And we will NOT attempt to understand the means of pushing your agenda and the acts of evil committed by so many in your ranks. We will stand strong, we will stand united, and we will prevail in protecting our culture and nations.

Even terrorists and liberals can “understand” that.

At 8/04/2005 11:04:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is what I will do:

In coming weeks I am going to interview various scholars of Islam and will ask them why Muslims dislike and distrust the non-Muslims? Why they think of us as enemy when we have no feeling of enmity towards them? What are their grievances? What the terrorists want? Is Islamic terrorism an aberration? Is there a peaceful Islam that needs to be rescued? Is there such thing as moderate Islam? Can the moderate Islam win over the extremist Islam? Has the West been responsible in anyways for how Muslims feel? Are poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunities and dictatorship the causes of Islamic revolt? How and when all this will end? Is this the beginning of the World War III? Is this a war? If so how we should fight it? Who should fight it? Is our civilization in danger? Can Islamic terrorism be defeated? If yes…how? If no…what should be done?

Each week I am going to publish the views of one or two scholars on this subject. At the end I will put together the gist of what these scholars have said and send them to several world leaders and politicians with the name of the participants.

Clearly we are at war. People are dying. What is not clear is the identity of the enemy and what he wants. I hope at the end of this symposium all of us will have answers to the above questions and perhaps our politicians will also benefit from this insight.

At 8/04/2005 11:04:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Have some respect if not for yourself, then for the readers who, like me, do vomit at names such as yours that you put in front of our eyes, and we have to see your dirty language inspite of our desires not to.

Have some respect for yourself, for that is all you have learned in the USA, you picked up and are proud of learning only that thing from the greatest country you want to emulate, but only you are able to immitate their lowest.

Have mercy on our eyes and spare us the ugliness of seeing what is inside your empty brain.

Ex Mohammed


MBs were not opposing the regime from the Start. They supported the so called the Correctional movment in the hope that they will not see any Alawi in the regime later on (they thought that getting rid of Salah Jedid was the real challenge, and that siding Assad would be a piece of cake). Like most crazy Muslims, they do not see but sectarianism, and Sunni, Shii, Alawi, etc... They are imprisonned in their bottles of religion.

They turned against the regime when they realized that the so called Correctional Movement did not get rid of the Alawis, and that inspite of Assad declaring himself becoming a Sunni, he kept Alawi officers in charge of guarding him.

This Syrian people, and as long as they only see nothing but in terms of Alawi, Sunni, etc... will never be free, and they do not deserve freedom in any way.

At 8/04/2005 11:06:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The remark I made was toward the so called Disobedient, but few posts were posted while I was writing my comment.

At 8/04/2005 11:16:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To John:

Please visit , the English section and read about the Curan. Those verses (peaceful) as you say were officially annuled by the Quran itself later on, after Mohammed became more powerful. This is starnge that "god" changed his mind and wrote things that are contrary to what he wrote before.

For long time, I had thought that the Quran's peaceful language that is contradictory to its other violent aspect had some how a logical explanation that I never questioned, because, as I was told in school, God was merciful, etc..., and that the end aim is peace, and respect for all. Only lately did I read, and verified to be true that the Peaceful verses were in fact annuled, and that it is the so called the Sword Surah (Verse) that takes precedence and that all that were prior to it were officially became void.

When Muslim so called Scholars speak of some peaceful and loving verse, they are only taking the first part of a verse, such as saying: "do not kill the soul that God forbade ", without continuing and saying: "except when it is just to kill it". They only give the first part, and purposely forget to give its continuation. analyses the Kuran inn details.

At 8/04/2005 11:20:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To John USA

Check This out as a small sample of non-muslim terror groups.

At 8/04/2005 11:25:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our FAMILIES are the best we have in SYRIA.

Family Planning

When will it emerge from the category of taboo?

Rahada Abdoush

Arabs used to say that, "there are two bad things in life: having a big amount of money, and a little amount of children". Today it is said that: "with the child comes the daily bread.

With the passing of the centuries, concepts have changed, swinging back and forth between development and stagnation. Some issues remain today. In this, the 21st century we are in the same situation as the past, or even falling backward--continuing to ignore certain issues, despite the need to talk about them. Family planning is one of these issues which has been kept hidden. This silence astonishes us and leads to question the cause. Is this silence due to weak societal awareness of the consequences of random increases in breeding? Is it because of misconceptions on birth? Or is the reason the control of some backward religious leaders over the mentality of others?

Means of protection:

Mrs. Rehab Zeinaldin, who has ten children, says, "I gave birth to my children despite my husband's insistence on taking birth control. I did not listen to him because I wanted to connect him to his house. Giving birth was my only way to maintain my husband. Of course we could not afford children's education for more than elementary school. Now my children are responsible for themselves. We can not afford anything for them anymore. If I went back in time, I would not have such a number of children. Being pregnant many times weakened my body and made me look older than my age. In addition, we feel guilty toward our children, as we could not provide a proper education for them".

Children carry our name, and they are a source of support and pride:

Mrs. Nabiha Hasan: "I did not want to have this number of children (11 children). But my husband always threatened me with divorce or marrying another woman if I did not have so many children. According to him, children carry our name, and they are a source of support and pride to show off before people. He married me while I was thirteen to have many children. I feel that he is now regretful, as we could not raise them or educate them. We work all the day long, just to afford for our food."

It is not a human case, but it is the will of God.

Mr. Mouinr Yousef says, "What's the problem in having many children? And why do you make a fuss out of it? They raise themselves by themselves as we did before. I have seven children, and I still want more. Even if I will be forced to marry once again--even then my love for children is limitless. They will carry my name after my death. Regarding education, I will help them according to my financial status. I don't mind that they learn a career to support them in life. For birth control, I refuse it completely, as it contradicts religious teachings and interferes in the will of God."

A different point of view: Children are a responsibility:

Mrs. Maysaa Habib has a different point of view:

"Although my financial standard is good, I have only two children. As I want the best for my children, I want them to live in a good social and financial standard better than ours. I hope that they reach the highest stages of education, according to their desire. Children are not the only connection between husband and wife. They are a responsibility over their shoulders. Therefore, parents should be up to this responsibility. Otherwise, children turn to a real tragedy that affects both family and society negatively. We should especially think about the impact on the new generation."

Why is there fear from such issues?

These different opinions about birth put us in front of a delicate and important point. Namely, it is the necessity of concerned governmental and non-governmental institutions to raise family awareness. Media also must have an important role, as it is a very powerful tool that affects public opinion. But we still fear talking about family planning, as it is a religious, social, or even political taboo. Some say that family planning is a Western idea which seeks to limit Arab human ability. Others, who think they are smart, forbid means of birth control due to its bad effects on the health of mothers, its contradiction to religious teachings, and many other explanations. Those who espouse these views do not notice that humanity in general is entering the industrial revolution, where the costs of life are a constant burden. Additionally, the increases in population resulting from this industrialization cause many problems. If stern measures are not taken to limit this phenomenon, increasing poverty, hunger and deprivation will prevail. Even today, overpopulation manifests itself in many negative images throughout our society, such as child labor.

Family planning is a national obligation and a global issue, which needs to be addressed by all social and scientific efforts in the world to protect humanity. In Syria up to now, there is no awareness policy to apply family planning, despite its importance in strengthening the role of family in human development efforts.

At 8/04/2005 11:28:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A maid in our house

Yahya Alous

Every week we hear about many assault incidents against maids; beating, torturing, depriving them from food, or denying their wages, or sometimes this goes far to the extent of sexual attack. Does this problem rate on the top of our Arab societies problems' list, as the maid phenomenon has spread in our society.

Maids' phenomenon has existed in Syria a very long time ago, but it was in a different form. The maid was called "worker", and she was not a permanent maid, but she did domestic services such as: house cleaning and cooking. The "worker" was known for her good reputation and clean services, and her cleanliness. Also another form of maids that exist until now is "cleaning woman" that used to be a poor woman who does only housecleaning services.

Organizing the maids' profession:

Today with the increasing demand on job opportunities, maid's job has become more common and organized, especially with the appearance of maids' employment agencies. Although it is now more organized, yet there are no governmental regulations to protect maids' basic rights. Many families started to push their girls to work in this domain –mostly young girls–, to work in houses. Poverty and bad economic situation make these families and their girls accept the inhumane conditions of work, with lack of opportunities and low level of education. So this kind of work has spread, and it has become a main source of income for whole families.

As these marginalized families live under difficult circumstances such as: the absence of awareness, and the absence of governmental regulations to protect these maids. Consequently assaults and violations against these maid girls and women increased.

Foreign maids… Maids or prisoners:

Many rich families started to import maids from abroad, as their wages are cheap, and they are guaranteed to remain at work. When the maid first arrive in the country, the family keep her passport, so that they control her during the entire period of the work contract. In a condition that seems like a prison's for maids, the tension rise for some maids who turn their anger towards small children or even sometimes towards their parents. Sometimes tension rise to the extent of committing a crime either by the maid or by a member of the host family.

The role of employment agencies:

Employment agencies can provide families maids of all sorts, and they organize contracting between both parties. What these agencies seek is more profit, so they never hesitate to fulfill customer's needs, whatever these needs are. For instance some agencies put a fake age of the young maid on the contract whose real age is smaller, and normally she is a child under the legal age of work. As young maids are preferred over old ones, because they are easier to control and deal with. In this way, children are submitted to serving in houses, and sadly under the knowledge of the maid's parents.

After these agencies get their commission, they withdraw completely. Leaving the maid, whose problems and suffering with the host family has just started, on her own. While these agencies continue their violations with no supervision or regulations to stop them.

A variance in the crisis:

House labor differs from one country to another. For example there is a huge number of house maids in the Persian Gulf which reflects the financial standard of Saudi population, also to some extent a big number of maids exist in Lebanon. Saudi Ministry of Labor said in last February that many violations against foreign workers were reported, as a result the ministry started to establish a department whose specialization is protecting foreign labor and handling their problems including house labor. for the record 50 Indonesian workers in Saudi return to their home country, because of these violations. Amnesty international observed many cases of violations including beating, severe injuries, rape, working for long hours and deprivation from rests and holidays. Therefore many international human rights organizations criticized Kuwait, Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain and Emirates for committing violations against foreign labor.

The situation is not better in Lebanon. According to the consul of Sri Lanka in Beirut, there are more than 50 complaints of violations against maids and servants reported daily to their embassy in Beirut, and court is full of hundreds of cases on violations against maids.

The downside of hiring a maid:

The effect of maid in the house where she works, depends on the role and duties she handles. Some families depend on maids in everything, starting from house cleaning to tending children, while other families depend on them only in doing house works.

Regarding children, thus raising them by maids creates a different educational values and psychological effects, as they are exposed to a different customs and culture that belong to the maid. In addition to the knowledge gap that will arise between children and the maid, due to the different languages they speak. Also maids usually have a low level of education, which affects children negatively.

For maids, they seek this job coming far a way from their home country, pressured by poverty and cruel life, not knowing what is waiting for them

At 8/04/2005 12:05:00 PM, Blogger Innocent_Criminal said...

Can you please stop pasting entire articles here. Just post the link and if someone is interested then they will read it. But pasting a whole novel here is very distracting.

As for the conservative moron John. Your hate will never allow you to see the facts. Which is Christianity Judaism and Islam are as bad as each other. You see the best in your religion and worst in the competing religions PERIOD. No other reason exists.

Even though I am an atheist I believe Islam has one over the others in the fact that they accept Christians and Jews as believers in the same God. While Christian’s believe that redemption is ONLY through Jesus. And if I am right in guessing that you are an evangelist, then there it’s hopeless to have an adult conversation with you. Your preachers are money hungry racists who only care about selling their branded books, mugs and fill their bank shelters with money and you actually believe them.

But just in case I am wrong, can you explain why Christians in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and even Iraq (before the American invasion). Live a comfortable life and treated almost always on equal footings with non Christians? The fact of the matter is: You are more UNeducated than people think you are. Because you don’t see what you read, or what is going on in the world. Instead you see what you are told to believe in the books you read and shows you watch.


P.S stop using liberalists as a bad word. Conservative is what needs to be eradicated.

At 8/04/2005 12:05:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

John you stupid Neo Conservative Fuck, we don't need your bigoted comments here.

At 8/04/2005 12:27:00 PM, Blogger One Disobedient Mofo said...

John USA,

I love people like you. In Arabic, we have a proverb that says, "All that food, doesn't feed your stomach". All what you claim to know, did't serve you at all, you still have no idea. I'll get quotes from the bible that give you goosebumps from its terror and nonesense. But I am better than attacking religions.

Why am I saying this, because you are one illeterate %%%%, that has no idea about the whole world. You are one Fox news watcher who has no idea what goes on outside your county line, let alone the world.

It is true that the entire Arab world Published as many books as New York, but I now know why. When I go to Barnes and Nobles or Borders, here is what I see:

-How to cook Chinese in half an hour.
-Guns, a historical prespective
-Bed Lamps, and their psychological effects
-Books for dummies (l%%%%%)
-Endless amounts of novels...
-American History (selective)

No book that explains Sykes-Picot, colonialism, culture of this land we live on..

%%%%%%! Damascus is the oldest continuously inhabited city in the is the greatest capital there is, with more diversity than the voices you hear in your head after you praise your monkey lipped Bush.

We have been under rule for a long time, from Roman times until the French, and when we finally had our indepence until we had Israel take a chop of our best land.

Now, why do resolutions not apply to Israel?

Why %%%%%%%% believe Bush's Quest for freedom? Go liberate North Koreans, who's ruler is shoving his nuclear weapons in your face, as opposed to Saddam rotten ass weapons.

Why terrorize %%%%%%%%%%%?

What makes a man, kiss his kids goodbye, and go blow himself up? That is something you will never know %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%. It is something called honor, if somebody kills a family member of mine, or destroys my house, or disrespects my women, %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%, I would make sure he is in 17 different pieces.

200,000 Iraqi casualties in Iraq? lets over estimate and say half of them were really terrorist and Saddam Army (given that the Iraqi Forces amounted to less than 400 thousand most of whom are alive and reinstated), but lets suppose, %%%%%%%%%, that only 100,000 were civilians who had nothing to do. Now you monkey, if each of the 100,000 dead had only 3 cousins, nephews, kids or son, that means you have 300,000 Iraqis after every American who killed that innocent civilian.

I decided to be civilized with John USA, because he was very civilized, eventhough his opinion wasn't.Therefor deleted all of my insults.

At 8/04/2005 01:10:00 PM, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Great post! I admire this woman.

By the way, Ben Laden follows Qutb, and theologist from the muslim brotherhood, not wahabbis.

At 8/04/2005 01:57:00 PM, Anonymous John USA said...

One Disobedient .......
So? We can also discuss honor killings, you looooser. Change your language before using the word honor. What about your great syrian history?.....a less-developed country. What if you go and open your big mouth in downtown damascus? Convince your MBs.........Care about your own monkeys or did anybody invite you to stay in USA? Feel free to leave. Good luck.

At 8/04/2005 02:28:00 PM, Blogger One Disobedient Mofo said...

John USA,

There is honor kilings, for a family member , for a countyr, a nation, race or religion..etc.

It seems bigger than what you can think.

I am as much american as you are, with a passport, only different is the generation..I have no issues with Americans who don't discuss topics that they don't know. I have an issue with people who pretend to know, while they have no idea.

Refer to my post:

I know you still won't understand..but I'll try.

Anyway, you really hurt me when you called me Looser!

At 8/04/2005 02:32:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

What can I say!

Tarek, or the so called DIsobedient dirty mouth want to defend the indefensible, each one for a specific purpose which I perfectly know, and their two goals are not the same neither are they compatible. For Tarek, who is a pro regime, we all know how the regime is trying to force itself as the defender of islam and Muslims in all Arab News media, particularly the Asharqalawsat where the fork tongued Butheina Shabban speaks in a very aggressive way against America thinking Americans are not reading her Arabic filth, and then speak in English totally a different message in which she or her regime attacks the Terrorists and so on. They are trying to lookk as Muslims as they can because of the complex they have and which they have put themselves in. They seem to me much more fanatic and dangerous than Bin Laden himself or the stupid Muslim Brotherhoods. This regime has done nothing but to promote fanatic Islam, and build thousands of those filthy Mosques across Syria, and so much in the Alawi Villages forcing the filth on the Alawis. Mosques in my humble opinion are the houses of Evil.

Like Saddam, the Assad regime engenders itself with Islam, and Tarek, though he knows in his heart of hearts that he is lieing about defending the indefensible, a filth that can not be cleansed, repeats his posts defending Islam and Muslims thinking he can gain more Sunni followers.

This is the person who posted under the name of Mohammed, thinking that the Fanatics can not insult me while under that name, in respect to their profit.

Now, I will be posting under the name of Joseph.


At 8/04/2005 02:47:00 PM, Blogger One Disobedient Mofo said...

Joe USA,

Don't call me a dirty mouth, because I tried really hard in posts to not diss you, eventhough you are a certified monkey who has no idea what he is talking about. Syria is the second most secular nation in the Arab world, the trend of Islam now popping back is because people are ashamed of their presidents, and are asking God to wipe Douch Bags- like you- from the face of this earth.

Don't insult my religion, for the second time I am telling you that. I know you are thick headed, but I think I am making myself clear. You are such a Bush lover, without realizing, you are using his words "Houses of Evil", so do your self a favor, grab a bell, and go ring it and sing freedom tones while you dance-raising the roof style- you illiterate son of a bitch.

Do not, insult a whole religion. O.K. Monkey? that's a redline.

At 8/04/2005 02:53:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

You "MotherFucker" as you named yourself:

Change your name that you seem to be proud of so we can talk with civility, otherwise, there can't be a civilized discussion in anyway.

Here it goes again:

Fuck you, Fuck Islam, Fuck your Profit.

Take it easy now. Do not commit suicide. There will be no virgins or boys waiting for you at the gate of your paradise. He lied to you.

He (The SOB your profit, was able to mobilize the Arabs of his desert promising them to rape the women they conquer (the Sabaya), and if they die, then 40 virgins and boys will be waiting for them (for those who prefer boys). Learn your Islam you sob.


At 8/04/2005 02:57:00 PM, Blogger Innocent_Criminal said...

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. Aint that right Joe?

that was a sad attempt by you, you must admit.

Why can't you get this simple thing through your sick lying head? I don’t want your support or anyone else's, I am just a guy who loves to argue. At least I say I’m an Atheist and mean it. Not trying to be someone I am not just so I can get away with cursing a certain religion or sect. you have steeped so low I don’t think your worth arguing with anymore. but are you gonna tell us who you really are or keep making up names?

At 8/04/2005 03:04:00 PM, Blogger One Disobedient Mofo said...


I am glad I ginuinly pissed you so much that you opened up your real self!

See who is medieval in hate now?

need a tissue?

At 8/04/2005 03:06:00 PM, Anonymous T said...

Why did you change it into religious bashing blog?

Joseph, you are oneignorant fool.

Read on you bastard

Unlike what you pastor tells you every Sunday. The entire Bible
mentions the word LOVE just 2 times. That is right 2 times in all
those 3 inch thick of pages.

Here are some Bible reference ordering people to kill one another in
addition to the hundreds more mentioned about how god committed
genocide after another.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the
priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such
evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put
to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
(Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to
death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their
death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the
coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are
guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and
the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and
thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.
(Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.
(Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their
fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not
seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether
small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say
to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name
of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother,
shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you
that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens
astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you
must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove
that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack
that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all
the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the
street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt
offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever;
it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set
apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger
and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a
great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD
your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the
commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."
(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding
night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall
bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her
townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime
against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall
you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved
wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other
gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other
nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the
other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon
him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the
first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with
you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you
astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of
Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall
fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy
13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the
LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD
your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by
worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I
have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the
matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been
done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of
the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got
into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son
of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was
brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She
was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in
custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then
the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and
tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let
the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel:
Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt
and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned
to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner
among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus
24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams
about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the
predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say,
'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to
them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all
your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.
Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false
prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death,
for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought
you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you
from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the
evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or
who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How
will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the
prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen,
the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own
and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts
desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each
other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth
about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped
the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised
forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful
desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and
instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of
having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for
each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result,
suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When
they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds
and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became
full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder,
fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are
backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are
forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their
parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are
heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty
for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them
anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans
1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the
census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.
You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant,
along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the
Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it
and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will
take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the
Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the
people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of
the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that
I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it
is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that
day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the
seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD
considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put
to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)


2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some
small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead,"
they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and
he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of
the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings
2:23-24 NAB)

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into
the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty
thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the
people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who
is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he
go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to
another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet.
Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of
the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure
enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings
20:35-36 NLT)

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house
of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the
cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites
made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and
with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his
hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.
But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he
died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)


3) Murdering Children

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest
they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with
tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will
die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if
your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It
will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have
watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now
Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what
should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give
birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their
wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive
them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no
more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are
stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And
if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea
9:11-16 NLT)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the
city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy;
have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and
little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your
task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy
leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards
with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the
city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of
Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to
the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of
their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the
people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard
throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where
someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will
shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter
armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.
With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young
men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers
and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and
the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people
in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of
the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist
against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished,
you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate
forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You
will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against
Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the
next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will
inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release
wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so
your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus
26:21-22 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little
children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes
will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I
will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or
gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young
people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and
will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)


4) Miscellaneous Murders

More of Samson's Murders

(The Lord saves Sampson from standing trial for 30 murders and arson
by allowing him to kill 1000 more men.) When he reached Lehi, and the
Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came
upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by
fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh
jawbone of an ass; he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a
thousand men. (Judges 15:14-15 NAB)

Peter Kills Two People

There was also a man named Ananias who, with his wife, Sapphira, sold
some property. He brought part of the money to the apostles, but he
claimed it was the full amount. His wife had agreed to this deception.
Then Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? You lied
to the Holy Spirit, and you kept some of the money for yourself. The
property was yours to sell or not sell, as you wished. And after
selling it, the money was yours to give away. How could you do a thing
like this? You weren't lying to us but to God." As soon as Ananias
heard these words, he fell to the floor and died. Everyone who heard
about it was terrified. Then some young men wrapped him in a sheet and
took him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in,
not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Was this the price
you and your husband received for your land?" "Yes," she replied,
"that was the price." And Peter said, "How could the two of you even
think of doing a thing like this – conspiring together to test the
Spirit of the Lord? Just outside that door are the young men who
buried your husband, and they will carry you out, too." Instantly, she
fell to the floor and died. When the young men came in and saw that
she was dead, they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
Great fear gripped the entire church and all others who heard what had
happened. (Acts 5:1-11 NLT)

Mass Murder

This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek
did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt.
Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under
the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and
infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.' (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

You Have to Kill

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds
back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

The Danites Kill the Next Town

But the territory of the Danites was too small for them; so the
Danites marched up and attacked Leshem, which they captured and put to
the sword. Once they had taken possession of Lesham, they renamed the
settlement after their ancestor Dan. (Joshua 19:47 NAB)

God Kills Some More

Then the LORD said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel stood before me
pleading for these people, I wouldn't help them. Away with them! Get
them out of my sight! And if they say to you, 'But where can we go?'
tell them, 'This is what the LORD says: Those who are destined for
death, to death; those who are destined for war, to war; those who are
destined for famine, to famine; those who are destined for captivity,
to captivity.' "I will send four kinds of destroyers against them,"
says the LORD. "I will send the sword to kill, the dogs to drag away,
the vultures to devour, and the wild animals to finish up what is
left. Because of the wicked things Manasseh son of Hezekiah, king of
Judah, did in Jerusalem, I will make my people an object of horror to
all the kingdoms of the earth." (Jeremiah 15:1-4 NLT)

God Promises More Killing

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to
escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead.
Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people
slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your
cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
(Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)

The Angel of Death

My angel will go before you and bring you to the Amorites, Hittites,
Perizzites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites; and I will wipe them
out. (Exodus 23:23 NAB)

Destruction of Ai

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not be afraid or discouraged. Take
the entire army and attack Ai, for I have given to you the king of Ai,
his people, his city, and his land. You will destroy them as you
destroyed Jericho and its king. But this time you may keep the
captured goods and the cattle for yourselves. Set an ambush behind the
city." So Joshua and the army of Israel set out to attack Ai. Joshua
chose thirty thousand fighting men and sent them out at night with
these orders: "Hide in ambush close behind the city and be ready for
action. When our main army attacks, the men of Ai will come out to
fight as they did before, and we will run away from them. We will let
them chase us until they have all left the city. For they will say,
'The Israelites are running away from us as they did before.' Then you
will jump up from your ambush and take possession of the city, for the
LORD your God will give it to you. Set the city on fire, as the LORD
has commanded. You have your orders." So they left that night and lay
in ambush between Bethel and the west side of Ai. But Joshua remained
among the people in the camp that night.

Early the next morning Joshua roused his men and started toward Ai,
accompanied by the leaders of Israel. They camped on the north side of
Ai, with a valley between them and the city. That night Joshua sent
five thousand men to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west
side of the city. So they stationed the main army north of the city
and the ambush west of the city. Joshua himself spent that night in
the valley. When the king of Ai saw the Israelites across the valley,
he and all his army hurriedly went out early the next morning and
attacked the Israelites at a place overlooking the Jordan Valley. But
he didn't realize there was an ambush behind the city. Joshua and the
Israelite army fled toward the wilderness as though they were badly
beaten, and all the men in the city were called out to chase after
them. In this way, they were lured away from the city. There was not a
man left in Ai or Bethel who did not chase after the Israelites, and
the city was left wide open.

Then the LORD said to Joshua, "Point your spear toward Ai, for I will
give you the city." Joshua did as he was commanded. As soon as Joshua
gave the signal, the men in ambush jumped up and poured into the city.
They quickly captured it and set it on fire. When the men of Ai looked
behind them, smoke from the city was filling the sky, and they had
nowhere to go. For the Israelites who had fled in the direction of the
wilderness now turned on their pursuers. When Joshua and the other
Israelites saw that the ambush had succeeded and that smoke was rising
from the city, they turned and attacked the men of Ai. Then the
Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the
enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all
of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped. Only the king
of Ai was taken alive and brought to Joshua.

When the Israelite army finished killing all the men outside the city,
they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire
population of Ai was wiped out that day – twelve thousand in all. For
Joshua kept holding out his spear until everyone who had lived in Ai
was completely destroyed. Only the cattle and the treasures of the
city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves,
as the LORD had commanded Joshua. So Ai became a permanent mound of
ruins, desolate to this very day. Joshua hung the king of Ai on a tree
and left him there until evening. At sunset the Israelites took down
the body and threw it in front of the city gate. They piled a great
heap of stones over him that can still be seen today. (Joshua 8:1-29

Killing at Jericho

When the people heard the sound of the horns, they shouted as loud as
they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the
Israelites charged straight into the city from every side and captured
it. They completely destroyed everything in it – men and women, young
and old, cattle, sheep, donkeys – everything. (Joshua 6:20-21 NLT)

God Kills an Extended Family

"You have done more evil than all who lived before you. You have made
other gods and have made me furious with your gold calves. And since
you have turned your back on me, I will bring disaster on your dynasty
and kill all your sons, slave or free alike. I will burn up your royal
dynasty as one burns up trash until it is all gone. I, the LORD, vow
that the members of your family who die in the city will be eaten by
dogs, and those who die in the field will be eaten by vultures.'" Then
Ahijah said to Jeroboam's wife, "Go on home, and when you enter the
city, the child will die. All Israel will mourn for him and bury him.
He is the only member of your family who will have a proper burial,
for this child is the only good thing that the LORD, the God of
Israel, sees in the entire family of Jeroboam. And the LORD will raise
up a king over Israel who will destroy the family of Jeroboam. This
will happen today, even now! Then the LORD will shake Israel like a
reed whipped about in a stream. He will uproot the people of Israel
from this good land that he gave their ancestors and will scatter them
beyond the Euphrates River, for they have angered the LORD by
worshiping Asherah poles. He will abandon Israel because Jeroboam
sinned and made all of Israel sin along with him." (1 Kings 14:9-16

Mass Murder

The men of Israel withdrew through the territory of the Benjaminites,
putting to the sword the inhabitants of the city, the livestock, and
all they chanced upon. Moreover they destroyed by fire all the cities
they came upon. (Judges 20:48 NAB)

The Angel of Death

That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one
hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the
next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings
19:35 NAB)

Kill Your Neighbors

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who
are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the
Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel,
says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp
to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The
Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.
Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the
service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing
your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a
great blessing." (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

Kill the Family of Sinners

And Joshua said to Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD
God of Israel, and make confession to him; and tell me now what thou
hast done, hide it not from me. And Achan answered Joshua, and said,
Indeed I have sinned against the LORD God of Israel, and thus and thus
have I done. When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment,
and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty
shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them, and behold, they
are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under
it." [Note that the sin is not looting, but failing to give the loot
to the treasury of the Lord.] "So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran
to the tent, and behold, it was hid in his tent, and the silver under
it. And they took them from the midst of the tent, and brought them to
Joshua, and to all the children of Israel, and laid them out before
the LORD. And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of
Zerah, and the silver, and the garment, and the wedge of gold, and his
sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep,
and his tent, and all that he had: and they brought them to the valley
of Achor. And Joshua said, why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall
trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and
burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. And
they raised over him a great heap of stones to this day. So the LORD
turned from the fierceness of his anger: wherefore the name of that
place was called the valley of Achor to this day. (Joshua 7:19-26
Webster's Bible)

Kill Followers of Other Religions

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled
themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women
invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the
Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab.
Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing
the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the
following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute
them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn
away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to
execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then
one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp,
right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were
weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of
Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and
left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into
his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body
and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was
stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)


At the customary time for offering the evening sacrifice, Elijah the
prophet walked up to the altar and prayed, "O LORD, God of Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob, prove today that you are God in Israel and that I am
your servant. Prove that I have done all this at your command. O LORD,
answer me! Answer me so these people will know that you, O LORD, are
God and that you have brought them back to yourself." Immediately the
fire of the LORD flashed down from heaven and burned up the young
bull, the wood, the stones, and the dust. It even licked up all the
water in the ditch! And when the people saw it, they fell on their
faces and cried out, "The LORD is God! The LORD is God!" Then Elijah
commanded, "Seize all the prophets of Baal. Don't let a single one
escape!" So the people seized them all, and Elijah took them down to
the Kishon Valley and killed them there. (1 Kings 18:36-40 NLT)

Kill All of Babylon

"Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the
people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a
land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as
I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in
the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

Micah Kills a Whole Town

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the
town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked
and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was
no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great
distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the
valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the
town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor,
Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges
18:27-29 NLT) (Note that God approves of this slaughter in verse 6.)

At 3:54 PM, Syrian Republican Party said...
More shit about killing in the Bible. We will leave the sex and rape
and scientific absurdity aside.

Evils, Atrocities and Injustices of the Torah

The following is a very SHORT list of sadistic acts that are
commanded, allowed, or threatened by God and his "righteous" men. All
of these verses can be found in the Torah. (which are the first five
books of the Bible.) I have put them in chronological order so that
you may verify them as you read along. (Keep in mind that the
scriptures literally have an atrocity on every other page. So this
list will keep evolving as I work through the Pentateuch yet again. To
compile a full list may take months, so feel free to check back in
later.) God entraps humans by placing the tree of knowledge in the
garden and telling Adam and Eve not to eat of it. This is rather
similar to placing a toy in front of a child and telling them they are
not allowed to play with it. God created us with instinct, rebellion,
and curiosity. Soon he punishes us for only doing what is part of our
nature. Genesis 2:16.47

God now commands that all women must have health hazardous labors for
Eve ate the fruit. In no way shape or form is it just that I must pay
for the sins of my ancestors. Genesis 3:16

God caused sibling rivalry by favoring Abel over Cain, with absolutely
no attempt at justification. This act of favoritism led to Abel's
death. Genesis 4:3-5

Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on
the planet save eight of them.

God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her
master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9

Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children
included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that
the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn't give us this
bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord.
Genesis 38:7

Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his
sister in law.

Exodus 12:29 God repeatedly tells Moses exactly what calamity he will
next visit upon the Egyptians if the Pharaoh does not allow the
Israelites to be set free from slavery. Then he tells Moses (also
repeatedly) that he will harden Pharaoh's heart, so that he will
refuse to allow the Israelites to go, thus bringing a calamity upon
his own people, as well as showing him the awesome power of the
Israelites' Lord. This occurs over and over, bringing calamity upon
calamity upon the Egyptian people. What is troubling about this verse
is that when god "hardens the pharaoh's heart" he is interfering with
the Pharaoh's free will and ultimately bringing punishment on the
Egyptians for something they are not responsible for. As a final
punishment god decides to kill all the first born of Egypt. The lord
reduced himself to murdering innocent kids when he could have simply
freed the Israelites himself with his "omnipotent" power.

God punishes children for the sins of their fathers, unto the third
and fourth generations. Punishing a child for the sins of their
ancestors is not very just. Exodus 20:5&34:7

God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be
carried out, and goes as far as Okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6

God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell
another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting! Exodus

Exodus 22:18 God orders the death of witches, sorceresses and anyone
who practices magic. Sadly enough, this verse was justification for
the Inquisition.

Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater
crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don't know about you but death
is a pretty harsh fucking punishment.

Leviticus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents and
death for adultery. Gee, with these types of laws the population
should be almost nil by now.

Once again god is a homophobe, or at the very least, a bigot. Leviticus 20:13

Handicapped people must not approach the altar. Leviticus 21:16-23

Leviticus 26:30 "And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the
flesh of your daughters shill ye eat."

Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.

Numbers 16:27 God buries alive Korah and his family.

Numbers 16:35 God killed 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses'
leadership. He was so bloodthirsty that he wanted to slay more until
he was talked out of it. Later he put a plague upon 14,700 Jews who
thought there was something wrong in killing 250 princes.

Numbers 21:1-3 God utterly destroyed the Canaanites at Hormah as a
favor to the Jews.

Numbers 21:27-35 God abetted Moses in utterly destroying the Amorites
at Heshbon - "…the men, the women, and the little ones."

Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people
including children and women. To top it off he commands that the
virgins be saved for later raping by Moses' soldiers.

Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses' army to "utterly destroy" 60
cities, killing all the women and children within!

Deuteronomy 7:12 God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of
seven nations. He even adds, "show no mercy unto them".

Deuteronomy 20:16 God orders that we kill everything that breathes in
the cities that he gives us for an inheritance

A bastard can't attend church "even to his tenth generation." As if
denying an innocent child rights to worship isn't cruel. Deuteronomy

At 8/04/2005 03:10:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

And your name is Tarek?

How do we know you are telling the truth? Even if you are, you are defending the regime, and now Islam, so you should not be at all scared for I and people like me will not kill you, but the regime and Muslims do use other methods beside discussions to shut up their opponents, exactly as their profit did. Read your Histlry about how Mohamad assassinated his opponents, even women opponents. This is not a trivia thing, and I did not invent it. It is there in the history the Arabs are proud of, and unashamed to even admit. It is all written in the best Islamic books.

Now, I tookk Mohammed not knowing that I would be posting more than 2-3 posts max. This has lasted much longer, and the more I learned about Mohamad, the More I hated the name.

Joseph is fine for now. I don't think you can find a single sin that Joseph committed, while Mohamad had killed generations, and imprisonned billions of women in the last 1500 years since islam came to exist.

Have a nice day.


At 8/04/2005 03:14:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Get me some thing from the new testatment you fool, and stop copying and pasting to bore us and kill this site.

Though the old testatment had such things written in it, the JEws never used it to conquer the world with, and all they wanted was a piece of land where they can be freely Jews, where they can call it home.

They never went into a rampage of so called Jihad to convert other nations to their faith, or be killed (Aslem Taslam).

There is absolutely no comparison even between that few violent verses in the old testatment and the Curan. However, show me one single verse in the new testatment that says anything but loving?



At 8/04/2005 03:19:00 PM, Anonymous T said...

After all that!

New testament is man made, after man found out how much you screwed the real Word of God, and made Christianity what it is today. Shame on you cursing at us with no basis.

I can show you book right now that say the world is flat. no time to argue with Idiots like you.

At 8/04/2005 03:34:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great Post T!
Saving it for haters I meet.

Joseph the hater..I see no response! You got a foot up in your mouth, or are you reading the peaceful old tesamant?

At 8/04/2005 03:38:00 PM, Blogger Innocent_Criminal said...

All of you stop arguing about religion.

Joe, you know your a low racist pig so why don't you just admit it? Jews did not conquer the world thats right. But Muslims and Christians did. So why do you mention the muslims and not the christians? are you telling me what the spanish did to the native american in south america was right you sick SOB? what about the crusades? or Nazi Germany? repeat after me " I am a racist pig and can't make a coherent argument" good boy

And even worse, are you trying to suggest that the New Testament is better than the Old? don't make me laugh.

At 8/04/2005 03:42:00 PM, Anonymous Josh said...

Here it goes, mr. filthy name:

" I am a racist pig and can't make a coherent argument"

Be proud, and fuck you and your profit.

At 8/04/2005 03:43:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joe got too embarrased. He's back to his Gay redneck bar. Drinking Miller Laaayt

Y'aal take care now, y'hear?

God Bless American, and nobody else

At 8/04/2005 03:45:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Posted Josh instead of Joseph bt mistake.

At 8/04/2005 03:54:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No worries Joseph, we always can tell whose the only idiot on this blog is.

At 8/04/2005 05:45:00 PM, Anonymous Ibrahim said...

I would like to ask about the level of animosity that the Syrians are currently feeling towards the Lebanese (citizens vs citizens) and how serious do you feel it is.


At 8/04/2005 06:22:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

أصدر الإخوان المسلمون اليوم بيانهم الثوري الذي طال إنتظاره.

وترقبوا بيانات أشد ثورية في المستقبل.

إنتبهوا جيدا، ففي داخل الكلام الذي ستقرؤوه في بيان الإخوان المسلمين إشارات رمزية للتحرك، لا يفهمها إلا كل ذو إضطلاع على ما تفعله هذه المؤسسة العالمية من جهاد في سبيل الله، وفي سبيل نصرة هذا الدين الحنيف، من أراد النص فسأنقله، مع أنني لا أريد أن أشترك في نقل هذه الرموز التي يكتبونها

لم تنفع إندفاعات بثينة شعبان في إظهار حقدها على العالم غير الإسلامي، والدفاع عن الإسلام ، فقد قرر الإخوان التخلص منها ومن نظامها.


At 8/04/2005 06:58:00 PM, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...


There is a very important difference between Islam and Christianity when it comes to the holy texts. In christianity, we consider that the texts were written by men and not by God.

Christianity have completely and totally dismissed the jewish law that existed before Jesus came. All christians churches, without any exception reject the old law and from a theological point of view, and that since the beginning of christianity. Christians consider that Jesus' coming made the old old law 'obsolete'. We consider that the God of the jewish bible 'changed' his personnality after Jesus arrival: the God of the old bible punished people, but the God of the christian gospels love people.

This is the old bible that you are quoting (the jewsih bible). This law does not concern christians. But what about jews?

Jews outside Israel do not have to apply their religious law because the jewish law also says that the low of the country is above the religious law. Hence, you don't really see jews attacking christians in the West. (in fact it's the opposite)

As for the Israeli jews, the religious law may become a problem one day, but right now, religious people are very far from being a majority in Israel. Jews used to live among europeans and most of them became secular because of this. Even if orthodox jews come to power one of these days, judaism is not a universal religion (contrarily to Islam and christianity) : judaism rejects converting outsiders, it's very hard to 'get in'. So worse case is, they'll apply it on themselves. This is not a problem for you and me.

Islam, is different. First of all, no mainstream religious movement rejects applying the charia. At best, scholars temporarily hold the application of Islamic law, but always from a practical point of view but they don't reject thes texts as obsolete the way christianity did.

So go back home and study more christian theology to get the picture.

At 8/04/2005 07:33:00 PM, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

In my case, I have read the Qoran, and some translated texts of muslim scholars. ). Not all of course, because not everything is translated and my classical arabic sucks.

I am capable of differenciating the main shia schools, the kharijiyyoun and the main sunni schools. I also have basic knowledge on the on salafist, Ibn Taymiyya and Qutb. I could tell you for example that Qutb, the father of 'revolutionnary' Islam was member of the muslim borhterhood. So how can the say that they are against political violence? Maybe that they are lying but maybe it's because the brotherhood acts as a conglomerate: it lets all mainstream sunni currents join it. So it's very diverse and, in practice, there's no internal consensus on political violence.

I can't say vilent Islam is mainstream Islam because most muslims are not very into these theological things. Still, when we come to mainstream muslim scholars (excluding hetherodox religions like the druze and some sufis) nobody rejects the laws the are regarded as retarted in the west. The position of most of the 'moderate' scholars is not 'just throw these laws in the bin' but 'let us not think about that now'.

I am not trying to tell you that 'I am intelligent' and that I know everything about Islam. It's obviously not the case. I am not a muslim scholar. But my point is that I did some readings before commenting to make sure that I have a basic understanding of Islam and to know what I am talking about. It seems that it is not your case when it comes to you and judaism/christianity. You don't even know that the relationship towards the scripture is different between christianity and islam.

At 8/04/2005 09:16:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vox is a smart man. At least he is no Baathy, and not an indoctirinated mulsim. As for Tarek, I have the feeling he also hates Islam as much as others do, but want to defend it because that is what the regime wants. The regime is in a position so similar to that of Saddam after 1991 when he added the AllahAkbar thing to the Iraqi flag. The Alawis of the regime will not convince any one that they are muslims even if they kiss not only the asses of the Sunni Clergies, and Bin Laden's other parts, but also even if they kneel and let the Sunnis do with them as they wish, while the Sunnis in the regime don't even have to defend Islam or anything of that sort, for they will be forgiven by their brothers and sisters who pray to the same devil.

I hope the Alawis of the regime get scrwed at the end.

As for the free world, it is of extreme importance that they keep an eye on the Muslims and never let them get any stronger for the result will be disastrous to humanity and freedom.

If you wish to live in freedom, defeat Islam. Islam is the most dangerous thing humanity and progress have ever faced. The danger of Islam can not be understated./

At 8/04/2005 09:58:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, we Muslims are dangerous. Now get the fuck out of my country, scum who says he's syrian.

At 8/04/2005 10:46:00 PM, Anonymous Joseph said...

You country, mr. scum is back in the desert of Saudi Arabia. There where you have originated and brought drought every where you've been to. So, scums of the Earth, go back to Meka and Medina. Even there they were not yours. The profit killed and cheated and betrayed all other peaceful people who lived there as the Jews.

People lived in harmony before your Mohamad came with his religion. Jews, Christians, and many other beliefs all lived in harmony, and noo one cared whart the others worshipped until that sob came on.

So, you get out of my country you bastard. Syria is not Arab, neither should it be a Muslim country in any way.


At 8/04/2005 11:25:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those strong believers among you, here is a great article for you to read. All that is required is for you to really listen with your minds, if you have ones, and think logically if you can. I assure you you will start to find your religion and your profi a great lie. Listen to what you can not deny with logic, but can only deny with your dogmatic belief:

At 8/05/2005 02:10:00 AM, Anonymous Tarek said...

What about Christianty and Judaism do you think they are a big lie too? I still haven't heard your opinion about them.

To believe Islam as fake means your one-third there. But you have to also know that Islam, Judaism and Christianty is the same thing so if one is false all are false.

At 8/05/2005 05:52:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...


In the science of Logic, your argument is meaningless.

I can come up with a 4th religion saying that all the previous 3 for example are true. Does this entitle me to an automatic pass to be true as well? No.

Islam says that Christianity and Judaism are true. Does that mean Islam in itself is true? That is not necessarily true. For Islam to be true, it has to be true on its own, irrespective of Christianity or Judaism. So if Islam is false, does that entitle you to say Christianity is false? I do not see how you can say that in anyway. But, if you prove that Christianity is False as well as Judaism, then Islam is necessarily false. That is acceptable because Islam bases itself on the necessity that the other 2 are true. The reverse argument can not be substantiated.

Here is an example:

A says that 1+1=2
B says that 2+2=4
C says that A, and B are true, and that 3+7=12

So as you see, C is not necessarily true.

Again, taking the reverse:

A says that 1+1=8
B says that 2+2=9
C says that A and B are true, and 3+7=10 or whatever number.

C is still false no matter what it says about A and B in this case.

Islam is false no matter what it says about Christianity and Judaism. If Judaism and Christianity are false, that will make Islam false no matter what, but if they are true, this does not lead you to say that it is true necessarilty, but Islam has to still be true on and by itself irrespective of the truthfulness of the other 2.

My personal opinion about Christianity or Judaism: I don't care. For they are personal beliefs, and their truthfulness is not leading to political decsions. It is Islam that is compounded with politics, and the lives of hundre3ds of millions if not billions are dependent on its evilness or goodness. When it is a religion plainly evil, humanity should watch out. It is dangerous. No Christian or Jewish person are now bringing down aeroplanes, or calling for Jihad to Establish Allah order. That is where the difference is. To me, you can be Muslim or not as long as you only take care of you alone in that matter, but do not tell me that "God" has chosen you to defend him against the infidels. Religion must be your personal choice between you and your spiritual comfort zone. I don't care if Christianity or Judaism or Budism or what ever are true. I have my own beliefs that affect me and the society not by me imposing violent means to establish "God's" order, but they affect only my own comfort.


At 8/05/2005 06:01:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

S Slight correction in the argument where I said:
"Again, taking the reverse:

A says that 1+1=8
B says that 2+2=9
C says that A and B are true, and 3+7=10 or whatever number.

C is still false no matter what it says about A and B in this case.".

It should read: C is still false regardless of the truthfulmess of its own equation inside , 3+7.


At 8/05/2005 07:04:00 AM, Blogger Innocent_Criminal said...


You are a moron. Thats a fact and it cannot be argued with. What i meant by Christianity and Judaism being false is because all 3 believe in the same God. All 3 religions basic belief system is EXACTLY identical, I know you tell yourself otherwise to sleep the night but it’s a fact. It's when you venture outside these fundamental pillars that you notice differences.

Let me (TRY) explain something complicated to an obviously retarded specimen of the human race. Don’t worry, most Muslims and the rest of the world are just as blind and racist as you are, but here goes nothing. When you give terrorist acts as example’s and proof of a religion’s evilness then you’re brain is degenerated beyond salvage. To be that fucking stupid takes a lot of guts. It’s like accusing Christianity of being evil because of the holocaust. The Nazi’s murdered ten’s of millions of people under the cover of Christian values. The Spaniards wiped out nearly all the native South American residence to make way for the superior Christian population. Not to mention converting all the survivors into Christians by force. If you want more recent examples then we can always mention the Bosnian war. And since your protecting Judaism (since you have to as it is the Old Testament) I will just mention the word ISRAEL.

Anywhoooo, my point is this, terrorism does not come in predefined packages. It is not only taking planes down, suicide-bombings, beheadings etc. It also includes but not exclusive to, bombings of civilian areas, illegal invasions, mass punishment for mistakes of a few, occupation, mass murder and etc, etc. The difference is, one side, lets call it the Christian-Jewish side; is much more sophisticated in its application of terror. The Muslim side is a lot more brutal and primitive in means (even though it has killed A LOT less people than it’s first type of terror). Not to mention, that this type of terror was first used late last century while the religion is 1500 years old.

But the Muslim community is just as guilty in the double standards against it’s own people. The majority of religious scholars are simple-minded tribesmen that don’t know the difference between their head and their asses. They have been embarrassingly incompetent in dealing with the fundamentalist faction with the brute force needed.

People like the London suicide bombers, Al Zawahri and Ousama bin Faggot need to be hung from their testacies and tortured for eternity. But there are several Christian and Jewish fundamentalists who need to join this great party. Because just like the people mentioned, they too misinterpret their holy book. The sad thing is, most of these Christian/Jewish leaders are not hiding in some cave in Pakistan. They are actually prominent and respected members of their community in places like Israel and the Bible State region.

I don’t blame you for being anti-Muslim. Its how things are now, people are fed misinformation on a daily basis. And god knows, Muslims are fucking up right and left. But Islam IS a peaceful religion, just as Christianity and Judaism is. The only problem is, they are all a load of myths written by wise men of their time. And while Christians are generally slowly moving away from taking it literarily, Muslims have been a bit slower if not going in the wrong direction.

And you can tell me you read all you the whole Quran million times, but as long as you don’t see it in it’s simplest form then it means you are only seeing what you have been told.


At 8/05/2005 07:36:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ASSAD or MB what kind of dictatorship do YOU want??

Syria Brotherhood for all-out change
LONDON | August 05, 2005 4:11:36 PM IST

Syria's outlawed Muslim Brotherhood Organization Friday called for an all-out political change in Syria in conformity with public demands.

A statement issued in London at the end of group meeting whose venue was not disclosed said the Syrian regime in its present structure cannot be reformed.

It charged that the results of the last congress of Syria's ruling Baath Party in June showed that a small group of isolated and authoritarian people hold power and refuse to relinquish it in order to serve their own personal interests.

The organization blasted foreign interference in the Middle East and Muslim world saying, We reject the aggression by certain powers in the world against our peoples and stress that resistance is a legitimate right for oppressed people in order to defend themselves and recover their rights.

The group, however, differentiated between legitimate resistance against foreign occupation and blind violence which it strongly condemned.

At 8/05/2005 07:48:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...


We want all Arabs to be wiped out. All Muslims.

Honestly, it is a tough choice. Both MBs, and Assad represent the same danger to the people, but in different ways. MBs will make Syrians live like x-Afghanistan, the Taliban rules, and the Assads are no better, for they imprison the human minds and subject all of the people to their corruptions and oppression, and limit their freedom to think.

MBs are a big factor this regime survived until now. The regime wants always the so called "threat" of the MBs to exist and be strong. It is probably the best way for this regime to continue to thrive and survive.

What a curse was bestowed ion the Syrian people !

I think they deserve it.


At 8/05/2005 07:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


Muslim globe-trots linking terrorists


By KATHERINE SHRADER Associated Press writer

WASHINGTON — An accused leader of al-Qaida in Europe — who can take on the appearance of a Westerner when he wants to — is getting fresh scrutiny in the London bombing investigation, thanks to his globe-hopping travels and associations that read like a who’s who of international terrorism.

Authorities have few clues about the location of Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, whom British officials once had in their grasp and on whose head the United States has put a price of up to $5 million.

Nasar’s background and travels, described in detail by Western officials and in court and intelligence documents, make him a case study of the intricate connections that tie Muslim extremists around globe and the challenges in tracking highly mobile and easily disguised suspects. He’s a Syrian native and a Spanish citizen.

International intelligence agencies have traced Nasar’s movements to Syria, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and at least two European capitals. His name emerged shortly after London’s July 7 bombings as a possible suspect, though any ties to those attacks remain unclear at best.

A U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity while the London investigations continue, said Nasar’s record suggests he is more of an ideologue and writer than operational planner. Yet he has a network of dangerous international contacts, and authorities haven’t eliminated the possibility that he plays a role in operations.

He was once in British custody for suspected involvement in bombings that rocked Paris in 1995. Lacking evidence, the British let him go.

Spanish authorities allege he played a key role in setting up al-Qaida’s structure there and may have been the mastermind of the 2004 Madrid train bombings, which killed 191. Interpol has issued an international arrest warrant.

Nasar’s 2004 book, “The International Islamic Resistance Call,” lays out in 1,600 pages strategies for attacking Islam’s enemies. He lists those as “Jews, Americans, British, Russian and any and all of the NATO countries, as well as any country that takes the position of oppressing Islam and Muslims,” according to a translation from the Washington-based SITE Institute.

Rita Katz, director of the institute, which studies terror groups, said the autobiographical book and related videos are a how-to for radical “holy warriors.”

“His brain is out there for the mujahedeen to use,” Katz said. “He has his fingerprints everywhere on the globe because he is one of the foremost experts on urban warfare.”

Nasar’s dual Spanish-Syrian citizenship and his Western appearance have aided his elusiveness. The 46-year-old can take on the looks of an Irish pub patron — red hair, light skin, stocky build. When he grows out his beard, Nasar — whose aliases range from Abu Musab al-Siri to Blond Blond — blends into Islamic society.

His journey into extremism began in the 1980s when he joined radical groups including the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood, which has opposed the Syrian government and developed ties with terror groups.

By 1988, Nasar was with the mujahedeen fighting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, where he met Osama bin Laden and became a leader of the Syrians associated with early al-Qaida, Spanish court documents say. When bin Laden moved his operations to Sudan in 1991, Nasar was known to visit.

In the 1990s, Nasar deepened his European roots, living at various points in Madrid and London. Spanish police put him under surveillance in 1995. In the middle of that year, Nasar packed up for London.

Spanish court documents show that police watched as Nasar’s wife moved their furniture, borrowing a Ford Fiesta and other cars belonging to close associates of Imad Eddin Barakat Yarkas. A Syrian-born Spaniard, Yarkas went on trial in April on charges of using Spain as a staging ground to help plot the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Soon after Nasar’s move, Paris was hit by a series of subway attacks carried out by the Algerian Armed Islamic Group. Nasar helped edit the group’s al-Ansar newsletter, meaning “the supporters.”

The British Secret Service detained him as a possible suspect in the attacks, according to German and Spanish investigative documents, but he was later released.

Nasar was running a training camp financed by bin Laden and keeping close contact with Taliban leader Mullah Omar by late 1997, according to Spanish intelligence documents and U.S. officials.

He was believed to be in Afghanistan at the time of the 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington — which he says were predicted by the prophet Mohammed as events leading to victory for Islam. “The duty of jihad is a must until the end of days,” he wrote.

Only then did Nasar formally pledge allegiance to bin Laden. When the U.S.-led invasion disrupted al-Qaida’s Afghan base, Nasar was thought to be among a number of fighters pushed across the border to Iran, said a U.S. defense official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the information’s sensitive nature.

The official said Nasar was eventually asked to leave.

Spanish authorities say he may have played a pivotal role in the Madrid railway bombings. Among evidence, Spanish legal documents say an alleged cell member had Nasar’s bank account number in his notes at home.

Western intelligence authorities do not know where Nasar is.

The defense official said he apparently traveled to Iraq after Saddam Hussein’s fall — possibly as late as last summer. Other reports place him in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

At 8/05/2005 08:01:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Thursday criticized Syria's leaders for "not behaving in a wise manner" by aiding Iraqi insurgents and warned that such conduct could come back to haunt them.

"The United States and the world obviously has to create a better clarity in the minds of leaders of Syria that what they are doing is harmful ultimately to themselves," Rumsfeld said after a speech in Beverly Hills at which he was twice heckled.
Rumsfeld said he was referring to Syria's refusal to return Iraqi funds, housing of Baathists from Saddam Hussein's fallen regime and the flow of insurgents across the border. He said Syria was also "undoubtedly financing" some of the Iraqi insurgency.

"(Syria is) going to have to live in that neighborhood and Iraq doesn't like what Syria's doing," Rumsfeld said in a question-and-answer session following his speech to the Los Angeles World Affairs Council at the Beverly Hilton Hotel.

"Iraq is going to be in that neighborhood for a very long time. It's a bigger country and a richer country and will be a more powerful country," he said. "(In my view) the Syrians are not behaving in a wise manner at the present time."

He added that "other countries and the United States are simply going to have to continue to try and put pressure on them so that they understand the disadvantages that accrue to them by their behavior."

At 8/05/2005 08:04:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

For that intelligent Tarek;

you are lieing to your self.

You know in your heart that Mohamad is a liar.

Here is how he brings up his verses to suit his sexual needs. This profit scamed all humanity, and especially you who believe in him that he brought his religion for the sake of humanity when he obviously benefitted so much from the religion he created:

"يا أيها النبيُّ إنا أحللنا لكَ أزواجك اللاتي آتيتَ أجورهنَّ وما ملكتْ يمينك مما أفاء الله عليك وبنات عمك وبناتِ عماتك وبنات خالك وبنات خالاتك اللاتي هاجرنَ معك وامرأة مؤمنةً إن وهبت نفسها للنبي إن أراد النبي أن يستنكحها خالصةً لك من دون المؤمنين قد علمنا ما فرضنا عليهم في أزواجهم وما ملكت أيمانهم لكيلا يكون عليك حرجٌ وكان الله غفورًا رحيما (الأحزاب 50). ألم تقل له "عائشة" عندما استنزل هذه الآية: ""يا رسول الله ما أرى ربك إلا يسارع لك في هواك!" حين ادعى أن الله أوحى إليه تلك الآية يحلل له فيها أن يقبل

مضاجعة أية امرأة تهب نفسها له

Did Jesus benefit at all from his preaching?

How can you even compare?

Did Jesus say anywhere to his followers to go and kill, or resist by force what so ever? Didn't he even say "Give Cezar what belongs to Cezar"?

You are way to stupid, Tarek.


At 8/05/2005 08:09:00 AM, Anonymous Patriot said...

The cedar tree democratic revolution in Lebanon was a victory not only for the people of Lebanon but also for the vigorous pro-freedom and anti-terrorist actions of President Bush and PMs Howard and Blair. It was also a slap in the face for the Baathist tyrants who run Syria. And now it appears that these dictators maybe again up to their devious ways; this time re-locating their vicious secret service thugs into Iraq to destabilise it’s fledgling democracy.

Evidence for this comes in the latest cowardly attacks on US marines in western Iraq.

The highly co-ordinated attacks which claimed the lives of at least 20 heroes indicate a level of sophistication above that of the average Baathist bullyboy of the Sadaam regime. Western intelligence sources in the know are saying it appears that members of the Syrian 'Gestapo' are now getting blood on their hands as they direct, and are involved in, attacks on the Coalition of the Willing forces.

I have previously reported on the terrorist training camps in Syria and it seems that the clique of despots that run this bastion of evil have been terrified by the freedom at their doorstep and are trying to do all that they can to stop it reaching their oppressed subjects.

For too long these evil men in Damascus have been terrorising their neighbours and allowing the dead-enders and foreign jihadis to use the Iraq-Syria border as an open door to fight against the forces of freedom and democracy in Iraq. The time is coming when stern action from President Bush and PMs Howard and Blair maybe needed to teach these Baathist thugs that freedom is coming and they better get out of the way!

God bless,

At 8/05/2005 08:16:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Here is the translation of the Verse I cited above permitting Mohamad to Screw any woman what so ever:

"""O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful""""


At 8/05/2005 08:19:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Notice how the translator is too kind, translating the word Yankah (Screw) with teh word Wed her>

At 8/05/2005 08:45:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joseph you stupid fuck. Syria is majority Muslim and you want to wipe out all Muslims? You would die before the words even got out of your mouth. Listen fag, Syria is not your country and it will never be. So keep your mouth shut or risk getting annihilated.

At 8/05/2005 09:10:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

We are infidels, we are not simply non-Muslim. We are people who lead good Muslims away from the true faith in the minds of Bin Laden. We are the greater danger, that’s why we are the great satan. It is not about what we did in Iran, it is not about what we’ve done in Iraq or elsewhere, it’s the very fact that our existence, that our pluralism, is a direct threat to their version of Islam.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 09:11:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

Some of them have religious motivations as well as political motivations but the same mindset, the same mindset governed them even though they may have very well not have been members of al-Qaida.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 09:13:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph's Dying soon said...

Joseph you ugly cock!

The ASsads are not mainstream Muslim, they do not pretend to be the defenders of Islam, and Syria is something else than what you sons of bitches portray it to be, it has areas that are more westernised and open than your mama's asshole, and areas so backwarded that if a redneck like you walks in, he would be burned down and dragged across town.

You fucking idiot, I have lived in Syria my whole life, I have never heard a word to a fellow Syrian Christian, or a are more ignorant than my dick...

The sad thing, is that we know how many idiots like you are present in America..and unfortuantly, most of them are in the adminstration. Grab yourself a real book you fucking son of a bitch.

At 8/05/2005 09:15:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

We support nations that support individuals that do not have our best interests at heart, quite the contrary, they’re our biggest enemies in the world and we dress them up and we take them out on a date and pretend that they’re our lovers and they are NOT.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 09:15:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

Usama Bin Ladin and other Islamist terrorist leaders draw on a long tradition of extreme intolerance within one stream of Islam...that stream is motivated by religion and does not distinguish politics from religion, thus distorting both...Bin Ladin and Islamist terrorist mean exactly what they say: to them America is the font of all evil, the "head of the snake," and it must be converted or destroyed. It is not a position with which Americans can bargain or negotiate. With it there is no common ground—not even respect for life—on which to begin a dialogue. It can only be destroyed or utterly isolated.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 09:18:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah...And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah's curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30)

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)


FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17)

And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors. Is it then the judgment of the times of ignorance that they desire: and who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure? O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (5:49-51)

...................and so on.......

John USA

At 8/05/2005 09:23:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

I can't use your dirty words, and I think that this is all Muslims can learn from the West.


At 8/05/2005 09:31:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's look at some great quotes from the bible:

"Go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (1 Sam. 15:3).

"He betook himself to slay the women and the children, and thought he did not act therein either barbarously or inhumanly; first, because they were enemies whom he thus treated, and, in the next place, because it was done by the command of God, whom it was dangerous not to obey."

From man unto woman, from infant unto suckling, from ox unto sheep, so that the name of Amalek not be mentioned even with reference to an animal by saying "This animal belonged to Amalek".

Leviticus 25: 44-46. It says: "44 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Paul gives advice to both parties in passages such as Ephesians 6:5-9: "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. Render service with enthusiasm, as to the Lord and not to men and women, knowing that whatever good we do, we will receive the same again from the Lord, whether we are slaves or free. And, masters, do the same to them. Stop threatening them, for you know that both of you have the same Master in heaven, and with him there is no partiality."

Paul in Colossians 3:22 urged slaves to obey their masters and reaffirmed that by serving their masters, it is the Lord Christ that they are serving and that they will be compensated for their servitude. “22Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, 24since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.”

The Petrine epistles go one step further and encouraged slaves to be forbearing even under injustice 1 Peter 2:18 "18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps."

“Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them. Titus 2:9

“All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. 1 Timothy 6:1

Oh yes, the bible is so peaceful.

At 8/05/2005 09:32:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LMAO, looking at those quotes it seems the Bible allows slavery and killing innocents.

At 8/05/2005 09:41:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

You idiot:

That Bible you are talking about is not the way of Life for the West, nor is it the way of Life for Christian, and as you know, there was a separation between Church and State in the modern world for a great while now. Furthermore, the New Testatment has absolutely no such language.

It is Islam that pretends that it is God's word directly descendant on Mahamet, and it is Islam that wants to convert all Humans to the "true religion" by force. It is Muslims now that are basing themselves on the Curan to terrorize the world.

It is not that the old testatment called for Jews to kill all non believers. It only wanted them to take possession of their land by not mixing up with those people who lived there. (yes, I don't agree).

But that is not the discussion. The discussion is when you make GOD accordingly the governor of the actions of the followers of the religion they believe it came from God, and directly!

What God is it anyway that permits his prophet to screw any woman he wants to screw? What God anyway who permits his prophet to kill the husband of a woman so he may marry her?

Just compare Jesus with Mahamet, and see that the comparison is impossible.

When you answer, refrain from using bad words as your profit.


At 8/05/2005 09:41:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

Muslims will never learn, not in west, not in east.

To all muslims in the west and Madam Expat Mini (she is proud about people flee from her holy nation! HAHAHA): Go back to your nation GREAT SYRIA, its really a sweet paradise. Allah is merciful with those who believe in profit.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 09:43:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

To that Ass Hole a8/05/2005 9:13 AM :

He said that teh Assads are not main stream Islam.

Thank God!

Imagine if they were!


At 8/05/2005 09:43:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

John and Joseph (You're the same fag as Metaz)

Most of those quotes were from the New Testament you stupid fuck. The New Testament condones and sanctions slavery. Chew on that, faggot.

At 8/05/2005 09:44:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey I'm gona be like Metaz and sign in with alternate accoutns and own people:


YOu guys are all cock-sucking faggots who deserve to die. Your arguments make no sense and you never have any supporters so you make multiple accounts to try and agree with yourselves. Well guess what cockmunchers, no-one gives a flying shit about you. Metaz, you are fat, unhappy, and you never get laid.

At 8/05/2005 09:46:00 AM, Anonymous Asma said...

I love Jesus.

At 8/05/2005 09:48:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

You lost control on your dirty mouth?

How come you can not be civilized and use proper language?

How come you need to respond by insulting?

I understand you. I have experience with dirty Muslims. I know it is the way you are, and there is nothing you can do to beciome a human being.


At 8/05/2005 09:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


You can continue to believe in Jesus but he never existed. I have just shown you why your precious Bible is no better than the Qur'an and how it condones slavery and killing innocents. Now all that is left is for you to leave, you stupid fuck. G'day.

At 8/05/2005 09:56:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

To this humble gentleman:

May Allah forgive your bad words.

Go and wash your mouth before you use his name.

Why are you so aggressive? What do you fear? The biggest mouth is yours, so what? And the greatest cock is your P..... With that we can live and enjoy our life if you stay where you are.

John USA (and only John)

At 8/05/2005 09:56:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

I am laughing, for this "human being" has pasted above verses from St. Paul's letters where he advises people to be peaceful, never to resent by force their situation, and to fight evil with good. What a more peaceful message do you want? This is the absolute supremacy as a message of peace and love. It is the belief that Good is stronger than Evil, and that by accepting to serve "your masters", you are confining yourself to be peaceful on Earth, and if your "master" does not understand your peaceful and good existence and services, then your reward will be in heaven with God. He did not tell you to kill your Master and by doing that to rape his women ion Earth, or if you are killed, to meet 70 Virgins in heaven ready for your sexual fantasies.


At 8/05/2005 10:02:00 AM, Anonymous Tarek said...

It is official. This blog has been transformed to trash gathering website.

At 8/05/2005 10:02:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

John/Joseph/Metaz, we know you are the same person.

Metaz, you are ugly, you can't get laid, you're unhappy, and you're fat. What more is there to say? Your opinion will never matter to anyone who is sane and you are hated by all Syrians. You are a faggot cocksucker who can't even make valid arguments. Once again, no-one gives a fuck about you.

At 8/05/2005 10:02:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes I agree, Tarek.

John/Joseph/Metaz is trash.

At 8/05/2005 10:05:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

R%e:8/05/2005 10:02 AM,

Very civilised language!

Make sure your children knwo what you are typing!

Sham eon you!

At 8/05/2005 10:05:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

Yeah.....thats it. He is aggressive because he is missing a girl. The major problem in arab countries, even if they are married.........hahahaha

John USA

At 8/05/2005 10:07:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHA Paul is being nice in those verses? No you stupid dumbfuck Assyrian/Armenian/Whatever the fuck you are Metaz, Paul is saying to the slaves to respect their masters. He is basically condoning slavery, accepting it as natural.

At 8/05/2005 10:10:00 AM, Blogger One Disobedient Mofo said...

Joe USA,

You are still alive?

Look what you have done, turning this blog into a religious hate. Go preach somewhere else.

At 8/05/2005 10:12:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joseph/John/Metaz is the same person. He logs in on different accounts to agree with himself. He is a dumbfuck, quite simply.

At 8/05/2005 10:12:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Muslims couldn't have chosen better than you to represent them, especially with the consistent use of bad language!

I know it is hard for the fools to understand the deep meaning of what St. Paul said. It is beyond you, for you belong to Mahamet!. His philosophy is exactly the opposite of Jesus's!

God bless you.


At 8/05/2005 10:13:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

Guess they are kids....hahaha, no future, no girl, no fun.....

Sorry, John USA, hahahahahahaha

At 8/05/2005 10:15:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL Metaz keeps doing it, thinking we don't realize what exactly he's doing. He is quite possibly the most immature internet personality I've ever met. Listen Metaz, find something to do in real life you cocksucking fag. Ciao.

At 8/05/2005 10:16:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL I agree that John/Joseph/Metaz are the same person and they are all fags.

Charles USA

At 8/05/2005 10:16:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know man, I agree too. The world would be better off if they were dead.

Chuck USA

At 8/05/2005 10:17:00 AM, Anonymous John said...

I like to eat out men's assholes.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 10:18:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Ask Josh if we are the same. His site's admin knows!

Then, you can not post a single post without throwing that kind of language!

May God open your heart!

I will keep hoping for you. One day, I am sure you will see the light, because we are all praying for you!
God bless you!

At 8/05/2005 10:18:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

I like to suck penis and smear the cum over John's face.

God bless you!

At 8/05/2005 10:19:00 AM, Anonymous john said...

Joseph, you KNOW I said we shouldn't talk about that stuff in public.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 10:22:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Shocking language, and they think they are smart.

Are you truly defending Islam? Can't they send better than you to do so?

I am shocked at the tricks you are trying foolishly to pass, writing using my name, and John's name. Isn't it evident for the readers?

What kind of people are you?


At 8/05/2005 10:23:00 AM, Anonymous john said...

I agree, but we really shouldn't come to this blog too much John. I would prefer to have you anally rape me as usual.

John USA

At 8/05/2005 10:26:00 AM, Anonymous joseph said...

Why am I so stupid and posting on this blog?

Why did I turn this blog into something about religion when it never was about it?

Yes, John, perhaps we should go have some anal sex.


At 8/05/2005 10:27:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Ok, you won. Islam is great! Islam should always be have people of your kind.

Congratulation. I lost the arguments with you.

Enjoy your Islam and the manners you have and proud to show.


At 8/05/2005 10:29:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you are still delusional Metaz. This blog was never about Islam, no-one here was defending Islam. However, when a fundamentalist Christian such as yourself picks out verses from the Qur'an and tries to say that they are violent, there are just as many verses that can be picked out from the Bible. Tarek has already proved you wrong in this regard. He even said he was an atheist yet you didn't believe him. Now fuck off and let the grown-ups do some talking.

At 8/05/2005 10:32:00 AM, Anonymous Joseph said...

Tarek, the Site's administrator knows it was you speaking all the dirty language and using no name.

Josh knows.

The world sees what the Muslims are capable of, here on the above posts. There is no need to prove anything. You show yourselves for what you are. May God forgive you!


At 8/05/2005 10:33:00 AM, Anonymous Civil Disobedience Movement said...

Join the movement...

At 8/05/2005 10:33:00 AM, Anonymous john said...

Joseph, I told you that I want you to anally rape me. Now hurry up!

John USA

At 8/05/2005 10:34:00 AM, Anonymous joseph said...

Ok, I'm coming right now.

Afterward we can discuss how the bible actually encourages homosexuality.

I hope I can get a hard-on this time...


At 8/05/2005 11:00:00 AM, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

Please guys, this is a blog on Syria. The same comments on Islam come on every post. I think we got the point.

At 8/06/2005 05:36:00 AM, Blogger shamee27 said...

To be honest I couldn’t finish this article cos I found it rather boring. I don’t think this psychologist knows the real truth about [al ekhwan al moslmeen] I can't believe she blames them to stand up against the brutal ALWAI REGIEM. IF this lady comes down from her American palace and ask the ordinary Syrian people she will find out that the Islamic brotherhood has very strong support in Syria at the end of the day we are sick and tired of those so called liberals telling us what to do and how to judge , she needs to remember that Syria is a Muslim country Syrians are Muslims or at least 80% of them, we do respect other's religion but we have the right to have an Islamic state in Syria where we can apply the rules of the Shria completely. I know that might upset the so called liberals but I thought democracy is the rule of the majority, I wonder why this don’t apply when muslims ask to have their say in the way they want their affair to be managed that’s what is called hierocracy

At 8/06/2005 08:20:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This poster said: (((respect other's religion but we have the right to have an Islamic state in Syria where we can apply the rules of the Shria completely.)))).

I really believe you are a supporter of Assad. This is how the regime of Assad tries consistently to say to the world: Choose between two Evils, me or the "Sharia". And because your name is so dirty across the world, no civilized nation would want to change a dictatorship no matter what it is with those who want to apply the Shariaa, and bring the area to a Taliban like system. So, I think you are a supporter of the regime, because, contrary to what you are saying, Syrians are not religious to that extent, and Syrians want a true democracy where religion is out of politics.


At 3/06/2006 04:40:00 PM, Blogger Shohdy Naguib Surur said...

a ruthless woman, a natural-born leader. i hope she realizes this.
i admire here courage and eloquence.

At 5/04/2006 02:35:00 PM, Blogger Joe Dees said...

Islamofascism vs. Christian Fundamentalism: Which is the Greatest Threat?

By Salamantis

I view the contemporary Islamofascist memeset as currently more dangerous than the Fundamentalist Christian one, for a number of reasons.

1) Recent History
The lion's share of mass-killing terror attacks in the past quarter-century have been perpetrated by these people, and not Fundy Christians (although they, too, are on my "Danger, Will Robinson!" list). 9/11, London, Beslan, Bali, Madrid, the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers...the list could go on and on.

2) Fundamentalist Literalism
Christians believe that the Bible was written by human beings, under Holy inspiration, while the official position of Islam is that the Qu'ran (literally, the Recitation) was dictated to Muhammed by the Archangel Gabriel, and is word-for-word accurate and correct for all time. Thus, while there is a reasonable split between Fundamentalist Christians, who take the Bible literally, and the rest of Christians, who see parable, poetry metaphor, simile, era-linked prejudices, contradictions and inaccuracies in the Bible, no such split is officially possible within Islam. All Muslims are expected to submit to the literalist stance; in fact, Islam translates as Submission.

3) More Violent Character
While there are a half-dozen or so peace-and-tolerance passages contained within the Qu'ran, there are also more than a hundred vicious and violent passages to be found there. People say, well, the Old Testament is indeed itself to a significant degree a 'testament' to divinely sanctioned brutality, and this is true. However, most of that brutality was superseded by the pronouncements in the more peaceful and tolerant New Testament, while the Qu'ran is divided into the Meccan and the Medinan sections. The Meccan section, which came first, when Muhammed was militarily weak and was forced to placate his enemies, contains all of the peace-and-tolerance passages, while the Medinan section, which contains many (although not all) of the brutal and violent passages, was written later, and supercedes the more moderate Meccan section. It is as if, in the Bible, the Old Testament came later and superceded the New; if this were so, Christianity would be (even) much more brutal and intolerant than it is now.

4) The Examples of the Respective Primary Protagonists
Jesus only got violent once in the Bible, when he whipped the money changers. Mainly, he preached faith, love of one's neighbors, and nonviolence. When one of his disciples raised a sword against and cut the ear off of one of the people sent to arrest him, he supposedly put it back on. Muhammed, on the other hand, was historically a warrior and guerilla fighter. His life was circumscribed by military conquest. The hadiths, which are records of occurrences in and commentaries on the life of Muhammed, are nearly as important as the Qu'ran itself to them.

5) The Confrontation with Modernity
Christianity began to behaviorally moderate and domesticate itself around 500 years ago, due to the effects that the Reformation and the Enlightenment had upon it. Islam has yet to go through this confrontation; it is only now just beginning for them. However, in the present era, with the advent of global anonymous communications and travel, and with easy access available to both the materials needed to construct WMD's and the knowledge needed to properly employ these materials, this is a particularly dangerous time for fanatics to lash out from the growing pains. Giordano Bruno conceived of relativity 350 years before Einstein and was burned as a heretic for it, and rockets (fireworks) were already known to Europe by then, due to Marco Polo's sojourn in China; think of what it would have been like if the medieval world had had the option of ballistic thermonuclear conflagration (not to mention genetically engineered plagues and mass-produceable deadly chemical compounds). There is the added factor that one of the Muslim death-penalty heresies translates as 'innovation' (Islamists are quite willing to appropriate death-dealing technology while rejecting the science behind it - a Pakistani 'scientist' actually wrote a paper that advocated solving his country's energy problems by harnessing djinn (genie) power!); thus it can be dangerous for Muslims to publicly embrace novel concepts - and this will only make it more difficult for Muslim adaptation of include accommodation to other perspectives rather than to simply be comprised solely of the Borgian assimilation, subjugation or elimination of all of their vectors.

6) The Evolution of Universality and Intolerance in Totalizing Memeplexes
Mind viruses are unlike the viruses that plague our bodies. If a physically infectious disease kills its host too quickly, that host cannot serve as an infection vector (which is why AIDS is so much more of a global threat than the Ebola virus - the long, symptom-free yet contagious incubation period). This is also why deadly diseases demonstrate the historical propensity to become slower killers as time goes on. However, a different survival strategy presents itself for totalizing mind-viruses, which MUST be cognitively rather than physically communicated, and thus, if they are elaborate and/or involve significant behavioral changes, difficult to contract under the radar of one's attention: to kill and/or enslave all those who RECOGNIZE the attempted dissemination (proselytizing) and REFUSE to be infected (part of these memesets is invariably the inculcation of the desire and/or duty to infect others - this is how they propagate). This eliminates competition for cognitive residence from alternative memeplexes (the dead cannot communicate their competing vectors). Unlike physical diseases, where people may be infected with multiple differing phages simultaneously (like measles AND the flu), a totalizing memeplex must have SOLE possession of its niche, or it cannot be said to possess it at all. And in fact, to reject conversion to Islam is considered by Islamofascists to be an insult and attack upon it, punishable by death.

Now, remembering that the historical function of tribal religion has been to enhance group cooperation and cohesion, thus giving religious tribes an advantage in warfare against tribes with less mutual commitment and more individualism (and most likely the pre-historical function, too - thus setting up a group selection which would tend to reproductively favor those who were increasingly susceptible to infection by religious memeplexes), let's take a quick look at the evolution of universality and intolerance in Patriarchal Monotheism.

The memeplex of Judaism originally involved a divine gift of a particular parcel of land to a particular chosen people - Israel for the Jews (although, lately, converts to Judaism, although not sought, are accepted from every racial and ethnic classification). Thus the parameters for the growth of the Jewish memeplex were set by the nature of the memeplex itself - only within ethnic Jews, who were only promised dominion over historical Israel (most Zionists still think this way).

However, with the evolution of Christianity from Judaism, the ethnic imperative and the geographical rootedness were pruned off, and all one had to do was to accept the memeplex. This allowed Christianity to spread to all sorts of ethnicities, and for them to take control of previously non-Christian lands, as their demographics grew to majority within them. It also had the advantage of spreading the genetic sacrifice idea beyond a tribe, so that multiple tribes sharing the same memeplex could band together and both protect each other and cooperate in the confrontation of common enemies (a feature that the Roman Empire put to conscous use when they adopted Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire). However, Christianity was written so it could be disseminated via persuasion - the Great Charter, which comprises the Christian memeplex's infection module, reads: "Go ye therefore and TEACH all nations". Of course, the construction of this module implies the conviction that the vector is offering a gift of knowledge to the ignorant, and for this reason many have been historically forced to adopt Christianity 'for their own good', even when they were too (willfully or otherwise) ignorant to recognize what their own good was, and sometimes at the cost of their mortal bodies, if in the process their immortal souls were saved.

Still the language of Christianity's proselytization module is persuasional rather than coercive, and this left room for the development of tolerance for other faiths, even while missionaries continue to be perpetually funded to 'spread the Good Word'.

This is a weakness that the evolution into Islam has exploited. The Muslim memeplex explicitly substitutes coercion for persuasion. It is quite precise in what may and may not be done: all 'People of the Book' - that is, Jews and Christians (and I suppose Zoroastrians - they have a single holy book called the Zend Avestra of Zarathustra)- have the option to a) convert to Islam, b) be put to death, or c) live in Dhimmitude, a serfic, subservient state somewhere between slavery and second-class citizenship, characterized by less civil rights, the fact that any Muslim's word will always be legally favored over theirs in courts of Shari'a law, and the payment of perpetual monetary tribute known as the jizya. For all the rest - Buddhist, Taoists, Hindus, Pagans and Atheists - the options are only two: convert or die.

Islam officially divides the globe into two camps; Dar-el-Islam (the World of Islam) and Dar-el-Harb (the World of War). This stance entails the conviction that the only means by which final global peace may be attained is the total elimination of the Dar el Harb, and the establishment of a Global Muslim Caliphate ruled by Shari'a law. Those who choose to embark upon Jihad (actually, it is described in the Qu'ran as a duty rather than as a choice just like Christian witnessing is in the Bible) and are killed (martyred) while engaging in it, are Qu'ranically assured of a Paradise in which they may perpetually and guiltlessly enjoy practically all of the pleasures that are religiously forbidden to living Muslims; those who live are Qu'ranically permitted to take possession of the spoils of war, be they the property or the women of the conquered and/or slain infidels. This stance is, of course, patently hegemonistic and militantly imperialistic, and becomes even more appealing to poor male Muslim youth, when they see their chances of having their own (appealing) wife as negligible (since the more wealthy Muslims are religiously free to marry as many as four of them each - as long as they can financially support them all). When one takes a look at the historical spread of Islam, primarily by coercion and conflict, from its inception in the Arabian Peninsula some 1300 years ago to its reach from Spain to the Philippines today, and one discovers that, of the forty-five military conflicts extant in the world today, Muslims are fighting on one or both sides of them all, it would appear that this particular module possesses great expansionistic efficacy.

Supporting this memetic module are some others, such as the doctrine that all humans are naturally born as Muslims, and that those who profess other beliefs have fallen into apostasy (and thus must be rescued from their error or suffer the dire consequences), and the dictum that people are free to convert TO Islam - in fact, as we have seen, the 'inducements' are quite formidable - but that to convert FROM Islam to anything else (or, in the case of atheists and agnostics, to nothing) is a religious crime for which the punishment of death is prescribed. It is also better for one's assimilational purposes if one's infidel target is kept in the dark. Thus, Muslims are religiously free to both deceive infidels as to their intentions regarding them (taqiyya) and to misdirect their attention from those intentions (kitman), in the interests if the greater good - that is, in the interests of the expansion of the Ummah (the fellowship of the true believers).

Now, I'm not saying that all Muslims, or even a majority of them, are inexorably drawn from live-and-let-live tolerance to Mujaheddin Jihadism in the service of the annihilation of the Dar el Harb and the establishment of the Global Caliphate (Daniel Pipes estimates the number at around 15%), but the vast majority those who are not so drawn are very quiet, because the message contained in the memeplex of Islam supports not them, but the militants, and they are quite reasonably frightened of suffering the Righteous Retribution of the Violent Faithful should they dare to attempt to speak out in dissent (Some exceptions are Salman Rushdie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Irshad Manji, Taslima Naslim, and Ibn Warraq, these brave souls continue to suffer for their courage and integrity, and many of their outspoken brethren have been killed).

Now, briefly, let us look at the particular strain that is presently so globally troubling.

Imaam Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was born in and lived in eighteenth century Arabia (1703-1792), and promulgated the idea that Islam had fallen away from its seventh century roots, the Edenic era when Muhammed and the Four Great Caliphs (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali) succeeded each other, and needed to return to them. This involved a Puritanical purging of all non-Muslim influences, the return of draconian enforcement of religious edicts against infidels, and the toughening of restrictions upon women. Wahhabism subsequently spread throughout most of the Arabian Peninsula and gained significant footholds beyond, but concentrated itself primarily upon the peninsula itself, as the defender of the purity of the faith in Muhammed's birth land, the Land of the Two Mosques. In the early 20th century, the House of Saud brokered a deal with the Wahhabists, and Saudi Arabia was born.

Sayyid Qutb was a Wahhabist born in Egypt (1906-1966). He traveled to the US, and sojourned there between 1948 and 1950. This experience shocked and disgusted him. He was horrified by the presence of uppity and voting women, freedom of religion and thought, widespread substance use and rampant sexual licentiousness. He then put forth the idea that the US was the fount of Jahiliyya (a word roughly translatable as pre-Musim Paganism), and, as such, was a danger to Islam and must be forcibly subjected to Shari'a rule. He did not view the US as a military threat, since he believed that life in such a dissipative culture had weakened and softened its citizenry, but rather contended that its various freedoms and vices were slatternly temptations that could seduce the faithful away from the true path. Thus, for the good of both the faith and of all humankind, the US as it was must be destroyed, and Muslim piousness enforced there. He later generalized this view to include, first European, and later all non-Muslim societies.

Notice that, without Qutb, Wahhabism would have remained directed inwards, and without Wahhabism, Qutb would not have had a pious and puritanical Islam with which to compare and contrast the US culture that he encountered. Together, their contributions combine to create the present Al Qaedan stance that the entire globe must be subjugated to a religious regimen that consciously holds itself in the seventh century. Interestingly enough, the head of Al Qaeda, Usama Bin Laden, came from Saudi Arabia (like Wahhab), while Al Qaeda's chief ideologue, Zawahiri, came from Egypt (like Qutb).

Considering all of these points taken together, I must respectfully disagree with your contention that, in the present age, Fundamentalist Christianity is more of a threat than Radical Islamism.

How do we deal with this virulent memeplex? I believe
that we're already on the path to doing so, and this is why:

The primordial form of government, one that long predated the advent of the written word, is monarchial, composed of royal masters, typically from a single family lineage that served as a simulacrum of the genetic heritage of the tribe, and ruled slaves, who owed the masters familial bonds of fealty. However, this form of government often entailed power struggles and intrigues by the royal relatives to either lay claim to or to seize the reins of succession during the authority change when the king, czar, pharoah or emperor would die, and this was not conducive to smooth and orderly transition and the smooth continuation of order.

Spoken religious myths had most likely been invoked to legitimize royal rule for as long as humans spoke and gathered in tribes. However, with the creation of written language, it was possible to create a form of leadership that would not change or die like rulers did; blueprints - that is, sets of ideas - that could codify the regal rule as divinely sanctioned, serve as abstract monarchs with which to supplement the concrete yet generationally changing kings, provide a common glue which smoothed transitions and soothed the populace while transition happened, and, via the inclusion of explicit tribal history, the encoding of symbolic abstractions of important past tribal decisions within the religious myth, or the insertion of purportedly divinely communicated rules, provide both guidance as to how such transitions should be effectuated, and within what parameters a particular king should circumscribe his decisional alternatives. These blueprints are the holy texts of written religions.

As time passed, certain written religions spread across several kingdoms each, and the kings themselves became in their turn ruled by their ecclesiastical authorities, who held sway over multiple kingdoms; as religion mattered more, royalty mattered less. In such a manner, genetic monarchies gradually evolved into, or were superseded and supplanted by, ideological monarchies, whose rulers were chosen from within the membership of the religion itself, the successor being decided, whenever a ruler died, via the consensus of the most influential members remaining.

Where religious government was itself supposedly superseded, in most cases, its supersession was apparent rather than real. Thus with communism and fascism, the god of matter and labor, and the god of the spirit (geist) of the people and its will to power, replaced the transcendent god of heaven, mind and prayer. Still, however, the master and the slave remained; the divinely granted or prescriptively composed sets of ideas and rules were the acknowledged rulers, but the actual rulers were those who mandated to the general populaces what those rules meant. Hegel was the philosopher who first explicitly described this structure.

The Hegelian master-slave dialectic was composed of Masters (who were willing to risk death in order to rule) and Slaves (who were not willing to risk death in order to not be ruled), and Hegel did not present any manner by which governmental form could evolve past this basic inequity. However, in the past couple of hundred years, a synthetic new level has emerged, that of Free and Independent Individuals, who refuse to rule others, but who are willing to kill and die in order not to be ruled by others - that is, they are willing to, in fact, even desirous of, letting others rule themselves, and will even take pains to free enslaved others, but in return they insist upon the right to rule themselves also, via representatives who are neither divinely chosen nor doctrinally imposed by exclusive vote from within an ideological apparatus, be they priests or commissars, but are instead popularly elected by the populace at large, in accordance with a constitution that, in addition to codifying those ethical precepts contained within both holy and secular precursors which are genuinely ethical, mandates the existence, frequency, and structure of such a process. In a way, the principle of ecclesiastical or commissar vote was generalized to encompass the entire citizenry (just as, in prior times, the Gutenberg printing press wrested the holy texts away from their elite cadres and made them available for perusal and judgment to all literate citizens), and a new memeplex has thus evolved; the constitutional democracy memeplex

In fact, evolution is an explicit module of this memeplex; whereas holy texts were forever frozen in their revealed forms, constitutions could be amended or modified by elected representatives responding to popular consensus in the face of changing circumstances, like species evolve in response to natural selection acting via changing environments. This capacity for evolution from within relieves pressure for revolution, as popular changes can be made to the established order without the need to overthrow that order in its entirety. However, so that the rights of minority citizens are protected from any oppressive 'tyranny of the majority', basic guaranteed civil and political rights for all are also included as a submodule qualification of the popular evolution module. This submodule grants and guarantees all of the memeplex's citizens equal rights and freedoms to individually pursue their own personal and economic well being. The interpreters of this constitution (the written and codified template of this memeplex) are appointed by the popularly elected representatives of the citizens, and those who amend it via legislation are separated from those who execute its enforcement and from those who interpret its meaning, as a barrier against groups of representatives collaborating in order to create and implement mutually self-serving rather than citizenry-benefitting changes, or issuing and enforcing self-serving interpretations, and to prevent the executors from authoring self-serving provisions which they then may enforce to their own benefit, or from interpreting existing provisions in self-serving ways. Of course, the concrete personal and political reality of a citizenry as codified in their constitution can never completely catch up to their abstract ideal, as this ideal is itself a moving target, in constant evolution in response to evolving and expanding potential rights, responsibilities, opportunities and choices, but, as noted before, their constitution can be continuously modified to progressively approach it.

Competition between the governments and peoples of countries that embrace this principle, that is, competition between constitutional democracies, is removed from the politico-military sphere (democracies generally do not war with one another - it's counterproductive) and relocated in the economic sphere, comprised of international trade and the competition between producers for consumers via the manufacture of better and/or less expensive products. This competition of course financially and materially benefits the consuming citizenry, at the same time that it furnishes them with gainful productive employment by means of which they may self-support (self-support and self-responsibility being a necessary corollary of freedom and self-rule). Thus, the constitutional democracy memeplex is likely to appeal to a significant percentage of those who presently suffer political and personal oppression and economic privation under theocratic and totalitarian systems, and are prevented by such systems from having an electoral voice in their government's conduct, making personally benefitting economic decisions, exercising personal choice, or changing (or even advocating the changing of) the nature or rules of the system in order to permit themselves to do these things. This appeal renders it likely that the constitutional democracy memeplex can, by offering people the opportunity to achieve concrete and actual this-world economic benefits, expanded ranges of personal choice, and genuine political empowerment, successfully compete for their cognitive memespace with the abstract and hypothetical next-world paradisiacal promises and infernal threats proferred to them by the Wahhab/Qutb memeplex. The hope for the future of secular and tolerant civilization could well lie in this constitutional-democratic memeplex synthesis proliferating through the populations of the globe, siphoning a large enough percentage of their potential members away from the enslaving embrace of the Wahhab/Qutb memeplex that they are unable, after membership attrition via natural and jihad-related causes, to increase or maintain their acolyte population, and finally ridding the world, via democratic revolution (assisted where possible and necessary), of the remaining totalitarian and theocratic enclaves which continue to employ the oppressive master-slave dialectic, and maintain their citizenries in its stifling thrall.

PS: Do not think that this is a racist stance which I am taking; I am expressing dismay at the propagation of a violent, virulent memeset that may cognitively infect any racial or ethnic classification, and trying to figure out what can be said and/or done to persuade Muslims to refuse to embrace it. In fact, there are quite a few non-Muslim Arabs, and the majority of Muslims are themselves not Arabs - the most populous Muslim nations are Malaysia and Indonesia, and their populations are East Asian, not Arab). Likewise, I am not criticizing Islam alone or in its entirety; the problem we face and the task set before us is to gain enough understanding of the workings of the Islamofascist memeplex to be able to memetically counter the propensity, a propensity particularly inherent in the Islamic memeplex but also present in the memeplexes of the other Patriarchal Monotheisms, to facilitate the spawning of intolerant and murderous mutational variants, such as, in the case of Islam, the Wahhab/Qutb Al Qaedan strain.

At 5/14/2006 08:46:00 AM, Blogger Hafid said...

Hi everybody,

I have just seen a video of Wafa Sultan of her debate on February 21st, 2006 on Aljazeera.

All I wanna say is this woman is really narrow minded and her vision and reading of history is really bad. Unfortunately, this is not the best place to write a long text. I will try to summarize my point of view and be short.

First point, who gave her the right to treat muslims as barbars? who gave her the right to treat the muslim society as a bachwardness society? I don't know her criteria but she's really far from the reality !!

Second point, she is arguing that what we are living nowadays is a conflict between Middle ages mentality and 21st century one?
Ok let's analyse what going on nowadays: Let's start with the invasion of Irak, organised by what she is qualifiying as democratic and civilized countries. To which era belong this act? is it to 21st century? Definitely not! this is a stupid act from people that still believe that violence is the solution of everything, people who are acting as if they are living in a jungle... exactly the same as Middle ages people.
Another event, the iranian crisis: the same supposed democratic countries (and others like France and Germany) are doing evrything to prevent iranian people from having access to civil nuclear technology arguing that Iran will use it to military purposes. In reality the main reason (besides protecting israel) for which they are doing this is just that they cannot bear that other people, especially muslim ones, make technical progress and be able to be a developped country. They want that muslim countries stay "slaves" and be a "consuming" societies (like Qatar and Co) rather than a developed country able to produce his own technology, his own needs. They want them to never be able to get rid of this "slaveness" for the occident.
Last event I want to analyse: the palestinian crisis. They asked palestinian people to choose their government. Elections were organised and all the organisations (including EU, US and UN) said the elections were hosnest and there were no cheatings. And now that Hamas won the elections, they want to stop aids given to the palestinian people! which democracy and which humanity are you talking about?!

Third and last point, Wafa Sultan said that jewish scientists provide the world with many interesting works in the 19th and 20th century. I want to ask her to review her history courses and to say what muslims scientists did in many areas: medecine, mathematics, physics and many others! muslim people have lead the world during many centuries and their invention were and still of great interest to the whole world.

So I want to say to this lady: if you are a real Doctor, please do a real scientific analysis of history and nowadays events, and stop tell people the half-truth. Another request, next time if you give ne of the Prophet's Mohammed (PBUH) says as an example, please either give the whole context or let away your example; because as you may know, when Prophet was alive, there were many christians and jewish people living among muslims without any problem. YOu should go back to history books to know who are the people that Islam was fighting against.


At 8/03/2006 06:09:00 AM, Blogger Chris said...

Back in the day, religion was easier to deal with. Polytheists would worship the gods of the day, and if they visited another place with different gods, they'd worship them too for safety's sake. Then monotheism came into being.

That's where the trouble started. The monotheistic religions all claimed their god is the true and one god, and followers of others should be done away with. Now Christianity and Judaism have, over the course of time, become more pragmatic. They have mellowed out, if you will. In spite of atrocities that have occurred in the past, it is currently not their explicit wish to kill all other-minded.

Now, as far as the Muslim world is concerned, it did indeed do groundbreaking work in terms of poetry, mathmatics and geography. Sure. But what happened since that ever so short-lived renaissance? Something must have happened, because now the Muslim world seems to wallow in moral filth and kill others.

When the Prophet was alive, his teachings hadn't reached more than 700 million uneducated impoverished people without any future to speak of yet. Of course Jews, Christians and Muslims lived in relative peace. Not one of them was a faction of enough power to do something about the others.

As soon as any of these idiotic monotheistic movements finds a stick that is big enough, you'll see that they'll try and hit "the rest" with it. There's your reason for that precious semi-peace of yours 1500 years ago. There was no stick yet.

Now we can talk about Christian violence towards colonies, indigenous people of various continents and whatnot. We can talk about Jews fighting with claws and teeth and committing questionable acts to hang on to that scrap of land, the one place where they have been somewhat safe in the past 4000 years.

You can talk about all this. But the fact remains that the current batch of extremist Muslims are *not* working on mathmatics. They are not working on poetry or science or peace. They are working on eradicating anything that doesn't hold their faith.

I currently live in Israel. Which bends over backwards to minimise collateral damage while pushing through Lebanon. Of course I think the Israeli army FUBARS certain operations. Of course it's questionable to kill civilians. But is is expressly not their DESIRE or GOAL to do so. They repent. And that makes them Human.

As a contrast, The Hizbollah has lobbed more than 4000 rockets into Israel, ONLY targeting miscellaneous civilian targets. Chilren's playgrounds, hospitals, city centres, residential areas. And this is their expressed wish. For that notion alone, they all should be wiped off the face of the earth.

Frankly, I hate religious people just as much as other people that cling to dogmas to the point of killing others (communists, anyone?). I once read that the difference between a religious and non-religious person is that the non-believer will not mind that the believer believes.

I'm not of this kind. I think you all are out of your minds, and I'd go very far to come up with a "final solution" to the religion problem. You heard me. The stupidity of mankind prompts me to let go of liberal principles. I realise we can't make an omelette without breaking a couple of eggs. And of all the eggs in the basket, Islamic teachings and their following are the first and largest eggs to be broken with extreme prejudice.

At 4/19/2007 09:28:00 PM, Blogger The Muslim Brothers Disclosed said...

Seems that some need some insights about Islam...
Here is a new blog about the Muslim Brotherhood that might be of interest to you:

At 1/27/2008 05:48:00 AM, Blogger Alejandro said...

Who is Wafa Sultan trying to fool? She was discovered to be a scam, starting with her claim to be an ex-Muslim which she never was because she blongs to the Alawis who worship Ali and do not consider themselves Muslim! What would one expect from a person who illegally overstayed her visa in the US and did all the things possible in order to gain the citizenship?
More about her:


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